Ep 63 Spiritual Journey

In many ways, the spiritual journey is about putting language to what is hidden in our souls. And in order to do this, many of us benefit from companions and mentors along the way. We need someone to help us ask ourselves: How do I leave “this” and move into “that?” And when we’ve reached some of those goals that once seemed so far away - now what? Join us for a conversation about our universal quest to uncover the emerging soul.

Additional Resources

Book: The Critical Journey by Janet O. Hagberg and Robert Guelich
Book: A Hidden Wholeness by Parker Palmer
Book: The Making of a Leader by Dr. Robert Clinton
Podcast: Ep 58 Learning from Indigenous Wisdom 

#HerosJourney
#Companionship
#Mentors
#Elders 

For Transcript:
Go to the "Transcript" Tab.
If you are in a player that does not have the Transcript Tab, use the link below:
https://thecontemplativelife.buzzsprout.com/1642654/10354329-ep-63-spiritual-journey

Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

spiritual journey, hero journey, joseph campbell 

Dominic Kaiser  00:06

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens.

I'm Christina Roberts.
I'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser. We're glad you joined us. 

Chris Roberts  00:23

Hello, it's great to be with you. Today we want to talk about spiritual journeys on our podcast. This notion that we are on a spiritual journey to uncover the emerging soul. And something that's got quite a bit of press lately is Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey concept.  This idea that we're all on this journey, we have these different stages that we go through along the way. As we talk about being on a spiritual journey what comes up for us today?

Kristina Kaiser  00:56

Well, journey is definitely the name of the game in my world.  There's a sense of, yes, one begins. And I've talked about this a lot over the course of my life, particularly with the hero's journey, and big points on that, for me, tend to be the need for companionship, which comes up in my life over and over. Even when people have criticized the hero's journey as being too individualistic. For me, it's like no, because I never would have made it anywhere without my friends. And then this other really huge aspect of it is the struggle. And I was just processing even just this morning, this sense of man, we went through a five-year period of really not knowing what to do with ourselves. We were deep in the weeds of having so many little children and trying to have a career. And I feel like the last year or so has been a period of trying to heal and make sense and keep moving forward with all of the good stuff that's within. And so yes, journey is just the name of the game that feels like for me.

Christina Roberts  02:09

Yeah.  I would say several years ago, when I came across this idea of the heroine's journey, it really resonated with me. And again, there are parts of the journey that are solo that only I can do. And what does that mean to be journeying and continuing to move forward even in the thick of things? What does it mean that on the journey, there are different landscapes, different things that I have to encounter? And/ or repeated things that I have to encounter? And then certainly what you're describing Kristina about companions on the journey. And, Chris, I really appreciate you naming at the beginning of the podcast that our spiritual journey is to uncover the emerging soul. But that's the idea that we're working with today. And I love that because I feel like trying to put language into what is hidden in our soul is no easy task. And a lot of times we fumble and fluster, and to be able to have someone that's sitting with us in those spaces to allow language, like you're talking about Kristina and making sense of things to the emerging soul, just feels so beautiful and sacred to me. 

Chris Roberts  03:09

I think both of what you've named has been very helpful in thinking about spiritual journey. And I think one of the points in Campbell's work of the hero's journey, or heroine's journey is this leaving of the ordinary world and going into the special world. And a lot of times, the idea is that you're forced out of this ordinary world into the special world. So as I've been contemplating life and it seems as if there's always an invitation to a new adventure.  I think sometimes I've been looking at being immobilized by the “what ifs” in my journey.  What if this happens, what if that happens. Usually, I'm quite an adventurous person. And the fear of failure normally doesn't bother me. And so thinking about spiritual journey and thinking about moving into the unknown has been really something that I've been struggling with.  Or not struggling with, It's something that I've been processing, something that I've been sort of working through. How do I leave this behind? And move into that  threshold, which is another concept.  How do I cross the threshold? How do I leave behind this and enter into this emerging soul? Parker Palmer and his book Hidden Wholeness talks about the emerging soul.   He talks about how the soul is a very shy creature. It stays in the woods and it runs away from noise and loudness.  You think of a gazelle or something like that.  It doesn't stray close to noise and lots of activity, it takes a special place for the soul to come out. It takes quiet, it takes solitude,it takes the right people. And so that's something that comes up for me is like, my emerging soul that sort of tends to guide me and speaks to my discernment for the future. How do I get more of that to come out? And so that's, that's one of the things that I think about. 

Kristina Kaiser  05:38

These are such great observations. And I think what tends to roll through my mind is, so much of the struggle that people tend to experience along the way.  I'm reminded of a couple of things.  Dr. Robert Clinton talks about this tendency, sometimes when things get hard is to just settle in a plateau, just get comfortable where you are, because it's too difficult otherwise. There's like many stage theories out there. So I don't exactly remember the name of who made this one. But there is one, where the middle stage of life is to just hit a wall. In terms of the hero's journey, there's the crisis, the death and all of that. And as you're talking, Chris, what I'm reminded of is actually this moment, I think it's Jacob in the Old Testament, where he wakes up, and there's a stairway kind of up to heaven. And he says, Oh, it was here all along, and I didn't see it, I didn't recognize it. And so there is this kind of wrestling story in our lives. But as I have been in school and learning in the contemplative, a lot of times what people are saying is if you want to know what's on the inside, look around, right? Because the spiritual world is all around you. It's manifesting in all these various ways. And so I'm often looking for something magical, as opposed to something that's right in front of me. But it reminds me of this, as we are moving through our lives, to just be open and become aware of what's really right here with us now.

Christina Roberts  07:20

I've been interested in some of the journeys of professional athletes, like particularly, with the Olympics that just finished and some of the mental health around that. And when one has reached the pinnacle of, I'm a medalist, now I've been to the Olympics, then what?  Do you do another Olympics? Or what's the letdown? So even when we do achieve these highs in our lives, these things that are just amazing, then sometimes there can be such a deep depression that follows that if there's not another type of thing to journey towards. And so I find that fascinating that we don't reach a destination.  There's a continual, what's the next destination? Or, again, what we mentioned earlier, the different landscapes of the journey. And so I don't know, I find myself really compelled to think about those sorts of things as well. 

Kristina Kaiser  08:08

That's a really big aspect of it. How do we enter it? So the sessions we're talking about, as we go into something special, we have to come out, we journey back in such a big deal. But this notion that we learned something, we brought something with us. And so it wasn't that long ago, we were talking about cycles and seasonal circles. And this notion of one thing kind of rolls into the next. And even when we come back to something, we take whatever we've learned up to that point with us as we come back around some really valuable point. 

Christina Roberts  08:42

And I think even on a very simple level,  our family is planning our spring break right now. And we're planning to visit my family in Canada. And it has been a long time since I've been to Quebec. And I'm excited to revisit these places now. And as I'm planning the trip, it's like, oh, yeah, I remember what I was as a teenager, and we went to this place or to that place and being able to relive that with my own children now and experiencing differently through their eyes and allowing them opportunities. I come from a Greek family. And so it's not only French, Quebec, but it's also all Greek, all the Greekness that you can get in one setting will also happen on those trips. But again, I love that I get to journey back. Something that is maybe not as huge as it was maybe the first time I went as a teenager but nonetheless, it's huge. And so I think there's something too about when we visit with others, especially others that haven't gone on that journey before into those special places. There seems to be something significant about that. And so even going back to the Olympic athletes, I think ones that have now gone into mentoring roles where it's like, Okay, I've had my moment of glory. What does it mean now for me to impart wisdom to the next generation and to help those coming behind them?  And somehow when we do that, there seems to be such meaning making and purpose in all of it. And so I find that interesting to think about as well on this idea of journey. 

Chris Roberts  10:00

I like that you bring up these athletes who move from one role into another role. And going back to needing companions along the way seems to be a huge, important part of the journey. And what you need in your young adult life is going to look different than what you need in your latter years. And so I like how you brought out that it might not be in the form that it took on, whenever you're younger, it's a different form and looking for the mentor relationships. And you know, even thinking about our trip to Canada, looking at the experience with mentoring in mind, or looking at what we can give our kids that is different from the experience that we took in? And so I find that very interesting to think about as we, as we think about spiritual journey. What did I think when I was that age? And then how can I give some of what I learned to the next generation? Are the people that are coming up? And then you know, where do I need to move forward in my journey is that part of the journey is giving to others, what I received. And so I find that interesting to talk about in my spiritual journey. 

Kristina Kaiser  11:27

It makes me ask, and then who is doing that for me, right? Who's doing that for you? There's this notion of who does come alongside us in our spiritual journeys, who does feed us. And that, too, has been a huge part of spiritual journey, and even spiritual growth, to feel like, who's inspiring me becomes a really big aspect of it.

Christina Roberts  11:50

And Chris, even you talking earlier about Parker Palmer's description of the emerging soul. I do think it is the people that are willing to sit in a session with me and allow me to unpack that, but it's also the authors of the podcasters. And people that are putting language to their own journey that helps my soul to emerge. I think, Oh, my goodness, yes, the way that you said that something is ringing inside of me with what you are describing. And that just feels so important.

Chris Roberts  12:15

Yeah. I like what you brought up?  I think there's something in me that looks for a tangible relationship where there are the elders. Where's the person that is going to sit in physical space with me to pass on some things?  And that's something that I'm looking for. But I think you bring up a very good point, it doesn't necessarily have to be in physical proximity. There are authors, there are people that are putting out these great podcasts, they can be the mentors that we need. And so I think sometimes I tend to fixate on locale or the physicality of an actual place, and someone passing information on to me. And it's good to look to other sources for that need in my life. So I appreciate you bringing that up.

Kristina Kaiser  13:04

And sometimes it comes in unexpected ways. I was in a conversation with somebody just the other day and trying to be empathetic. How do I explain it? How do I put it when people ask, like, what is your image for God? What's your metaphor for God? I don't know how to say that God is in me, all of these things, all these interactions. This person I was talking to was saying that she had gone up to someone in their 80s, you know, spiritual, kind of elder, like we're talking about. She asked them this very direct question out of nowhere. And that they said, God is the atmosphere that I walk in, or something to this effect, and so poetic, and it comes from the fact that this person has had so many years to process, how to say what they're experiencing, and it really helps me to kind of exhale and lean back into that space of yes, this is okay. The way that I'm experiencing God on a day-to-day basis is very practical, but it's still all of these things, and what a great way to say it is the atmosphere that I am walking in.

Chris Roberts  14:16

Yeah. And I like that you talked about going to this elder and getting this atmospheric image.  What makes a wise person, someone who can draw things out of you, and you sound wise to yourself. And so looking for those types of individuals has been fun to talk about. And something that we look forward to.

Christina Roberts  14:41

I think another aspect of this too, is this is something hardwired in all of us as humans, right? We never grow old of the heroine's journey or the hero's journey. In all cultures, history or whatever, there's something within us that that longs for that and so I think just even naming that  we don't bore of that. There’s something that we continue. They come back over and over and over again. The movies, the stories, the experiences.

Chris Roberts  15:05

Yes. Well, thank you so much for such a generative conversation. Now's the part of the podcast where we talk about what we are into what are we into today.

Kristina Kaiser  15:23

I am into peppermint tea. So we had some friends give us a huge box of peppermint tea in the summer and so I had put it in the cupboard and thought very little of it because I don't do a lot of hot tea in the summer. And then with the holidays, we have so many specialty things, but winter is going to last at least until the end of March where I live. The kids had a snow day yesterday and I was plumb out of hot chocolate. So we pulled out this peppermint tea. And I was like, Oh, this is delightful. It leaves that cool, refreshing feeling in your mouth, which is one of my favorite feelings in the dead of winter. So that is my special thing right now. 

Christina Roberts  16:05

Well like I alluded to earlier, I am into planning our trip to Canada. And so I am revisiting all of the Tim Hortons and all the fun things in Quebec and Niagara Falls. So it's been fun kind of plotting out where we're going to go when and thinking about Canada. So that is what I am into this week. 

Chris Roberts  16:24

I have been into Duluth Trading Company. Duluth Trading Company is based out of Mount Horeb, Wisconsin and you can find it all over the world. They make really quality sweaters and pants and I have really been into my bargain bin Duluth Trading Company, sweater. It's kind of like a professor sweater. It's got this overlay on the top around the neck. And it's a very interesting wool. And I feel like an old professor whenever I sit in my sweater and my kids and my wife make fun of me and I am okay with it because it is so cozy and warm. 

Well, thank you for joining us today. If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we invite you to sign up for our bi weekly newsletter, and you can find a link in the show notes or subscribe at thecontemplativelife.net. 

See you next time.