Ep 59 Legacies

Today we’re talking about what it looks like to live a life that continues to offer meaning and impact for future generations. Certainly, our culture seems to indicate that, collectively, we’re developing an increasing interest in this notion of legacy. But for many of us, this is also a brand-new idea. Not all of us grew up in families that were telling us the tales of our great-great grandparents and beyond. And so we’re looking for models, teachers, and guides. Join us as we engage our collective experiences in order to both discover the wisdom of our past and embrace our own ability to leave behind a story of meaning for the people of tomorrow.  

Additional Resources
Podcast: Ep 53 The Great Shift
Book: Finishing Well by Robert Clinton
Coffee: New Mexico Pinion Coffee
Activities with Kids: Mail Order Mystery 

#Storytelling
#Genealogy
#Culture
#MakingMeaning
#Reflection 

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Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

legacy, generations, BobbyClinton

SPEAKERS

Dominic Kaiser, Christina Roberts, Chris Roberts, Kristina Kaiser

Dominic Kaiser  00:06

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens.

I'm Christina Roberts.
I'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser.  We're glad you joined us.

Chris Roberts  00:25

Well, hello, it's great to be with you. Today we're talking about legacies. The idea of impact and making meaning from our lives is super important to most people. And it seems as though that has evolved into the language of legacy. Not only do we want to have a life of meaning and impact our immediate circles, but we want to be remembered. We want our life to impact future generations. So as I bring up this topic for today of legacies, what comes to mind for us?

Christina Roberts  01:01

I feel like this is super relevant. And it's been coming up so often in conversations that I've been having with people. And, you know, I can't speak to older generations, because I'm not born then. But I think certainly with Gen X and beyond, there is this thing of making meaning, having impact. We had a recent episode about the Great Shift where we talked about that.  We want our work to have meaning. And I think that's extending as we are getting into those spaces more of not just my world right now, but what's the future impact that I'm going to have? And I think environmentalists are thinking about this.  Even in culture, there's movies like in Encanto, Coco, where we're borrowing wisdom from different cultures that really value generations and generational wisdom coming to us and being passed onto future generations and what the legacy means. So I personally have found this topic coming up a lot, in many of my conversations. 

Kristina Kaiser  01:53

It just really is fascinating. I hadn't thought about it in these ways. But it is true, right? We're not necessarily just going to work in order to get the paycheck, we want work to mean something. It’s strange, we do have a lot of ability now to document our work. I was just asking my husband, we put so much stuff out on the internet, there's videos, and there's documents and blogs, I think, is all this stuff going to exist, or is it going to disappear? And he was like, No, no, the government is putting it away in an archive dot whatever. I don't need to know all that. But there is this question of how much of us lives on?

Chris Roberts  02:34

I didn't grow up in a family or a household where this idea of legacy was like this passing on, or let's look at the past generations, your grandmother, your grandfather, your great grandfather.  I think mainly probably because there was some brokenness down the line. And so we didn't look at the legacy of previous generations. But I remember hearing a story whenever I was in missions training, and the story was about how the Catholic Church in the early centuries AD would make the statues. And it took 100 years to make a statue. They would have one person cut this piece of wood, a certain type of wood, and then they would soak it in salt water every day for years and years and years. In fact, you had to get an apprentice. And then the apprentice continued your work of soaking this saltwater, this piece of wood and salt water. And then finally, many, many years down the road, it would get to someone who sculpted these sculptures. These wooden sculptures would last for hundreds and hundreds of years. And it started with this one person who found the piece of wood and then began to care for the wood. And so I think that was the first time I was introduced to this idea of something that is outlived.  You won't even see the completion of the final product of that statue, your part in the story begins much sooner, and you won't even see it come to fruition. So I think this is the first time I was introduced to this idea of a legacy, something that lives way beyond you and your life. 

Christina Roberts  04:34

It's interesting growing up Greek Orthodox, we had these songs that we would sing when someone passed away. And essentially it was, Everlasting be their memory. And when someone passes away when you were talking to the loved ones instead of, I think in American culture, we say, “Sorry for your loss”. In Greek culture, we would say “Everlasting be so and so's memory.” In a sense of what they have done, let us capture that and really bring that into the future and remember their lives in a significant way. And so I think even as a young child that was really instilled in me. So it's interesting that maybe these are sort of newer ideas for people. But I think there is something to that. And interestingly enough, how many of us know the names of our great grandparents or great great grandparents? Probably not.  I think like we kind of are aware of up to a certain point. And beyond that, we don't really think about that or know about that. And so I think our lives are kind of fleeting and fading, but when we're thinking in a collective sense of my wisdom, even if my particular name or fame isn't attached to it, there is something of me that's being passed onto future generations. I think there's something.  I don't know, my great-great grandparents, but who I am today is because of the lives that they lived, etc. So I think that I find that interesting as well. 

Kristina Kaiser  05:43

I think what we're naming is a really interesting phenomenon, too.  That somehow we have lived in a culture, perhaps we're kind of keeping track of all that fell by the wayside for a while I think it did for me. And my dad is strangely, maybe not strange, but they've gotten into this more, as they've gone and found old photos, and they're trying to name who's in the photo, and they've created these binders to give to each of us. There is a typo that suggested Dominic and I got married in 1975, which is just before I was born.  So I should probably get that corrected. But I came into my adult life, imagining a blank slate, imagining, Oh, I make myself.  I make whatever I'm going to bring forth into the world. And as time has gone on, I think I understand more, maybe not, maybe there are things that I've brought along with me. And as I read the wisdom of other cultures and other people, this notion of decisions that are made can affect, like seven generations forward. And so can we make decisions thinking, how does this affect seven generations from now? That's a tall order. And I think it's a meaningful order.

Chris Roberts  07:00

Yes, definitely. Definitely. Very, meaningful. As I'm thinking about this, one of the things that's come up recently, I've been telling my children's stories. One of the practices I've had in my life is going back in history,  back in the lives of my parents, and maybe my grandparents and telling stories.  My children are craving these stories of where did they come from? Or how are we connected? Whenever I was tucking them in at night, when they're really little, Tell me a story about you, Dad. And so it, sort of, developed this practice in me of, Okay, what was my life like, as a kid? What was my parents’ life like? So I told these stories throughout the years and now it's sort of put me in a predicament, because basketball is sort of a big thing in our house right now. And I played basketball. My kids are trying to get me to become the coach of their basketball team, because I'm this great basketball person. And now, I am not really a great basketball person. But somehow they think their dad is going to take them to victory, because of my coaching experience.  I have a legacy to pass on to them, and then they're going to have a legacy in basketball. So that's just a small way that I see this playing out with my kids. But I think it plays out in much grander ways, sort of as my kids get older, like they retell the stories that I've told them, they're listening, they pay attention, they know. I think they want a legacy too, and they want my strength to live on in them. And hopefully, we're trying to get their strength to live on in our grandchildren and great grandchildren as well.

Christina Roberts  08:56

Kristina, it's interesting, you mentioned that your dad has been into genealogies and looking at photos. We see a resurgence in culture around that. There's different websites now where you can go to and find out more about your family tree. And so even culturally, I wonder if there's this craving in us for a sense of grounding and recognition that our lives are connected to something bigger, and we're part of a grander story. And you know, Chris, even to your point of these things that I can inherit these things in these stories. And, of course, they probably get a little bit embellished over the years and we build them up in our minds as children, etc. But being able to take those things into the future.

Kristina Kaiser  09:35

So yeah, even as we're laughing a little bit about how stories get embellished they do sometimes, and yet how much does it even matter? Because even if we think about parables, parables aren't really about the exactness of the story, either. They were meant to give a broader concept, a picture that could be interpreted and used in your particular moment. And so it doesn't seem to matter as some of us would like to believe. Some of us like to get the exact truth but apparently, it doesn't really matter that much.

Christina Roberts  10:07

And I like how we're kind of broadening our legacy and how we lean into this. Again, it's story based, it's reflection. And, you know, I've been really impacted by some of the works of Bobby Clinton. He's written some books, and he has extensive articles. And one of his articles is called lasting legacies. And he sort of lists out, I think there's 13 different ways in which we can think about legacies. And I like this, because it's like, Oh, there's different ways. And so, we've been talking a lot right now on the podcast about family legacy, and what it means to pass on kind of our values, whether it be our nieces and nephews, grandparents, if we have children of our own, those sorts of things. But there's things like being a role model, and having a model life that others want to emulate that can be a type of legacy. Artists, those who introduce creative ways of doing things and the end product is a model for how to do things differently, whether that be through any sort of art. Stabilizers is another one that he mentioned, those who work in organizations to improve them, and to keep them consistent. And so revitalization and efficiency, Writers, promoters. And so I appreciate that. We can link to it in the show notes, if you're interested in looking at the types of lasting legacies that he mentions.  But I think that that broadens the imagination of what that could look like.

Kristina Kaiser  11:29

That's fascinating. I want to see all of them. I'm not I'm not familiar with this particular listing. And so I think I am not a stabilizer that is not right where I live. But I do write some things. So yes, there is kind of there's home and moral and value there. And then there does seem to be our work life where we get to put new ideas a little bit and encourage, in a certain direction, this notion of being an influencer in the world, which does appeal, I think very much. And I think I've even asked this question throughout my working life in a way,  What difference is this making? Who would care? Why does this matter? 

Christina Roberts  12:20

And even things like, Thea Voula’s recipes that's being passed down or  it could be these family traditions and recipes or songs. I think there's such an expansive way that we can be thinking about legacy. Also, as we're talking, something that definitely comes to mind is the environment. And you know, again, I think in culture, we're becoming more aware of the choices that we're making in the impact on the environment. And I'm just so encouraged by people rethinking solar energy, or ways to renew energy which is so inspiring. As we're considering things that we will never see that maybe even our grandchildren won't see, possibly they will. But thinking in those terms, to me feels exciting, kind of to your point, Chris, about those ancient cultures that would soak the wood to create the beautiful statues or cathedrals. There's something about the work that we can do that maybe we aren't going to be the ones that see that. But there's something exciting and I think very fulfilling about being part of this grander picture in the things that we're doing in the small choices that we're making, as well as maybe some things that we can invent and be part of contributing down the road. 

Kristina Kaiser  13:24

I feel like the notion of just even the one thing, it's the one tree that I soaked in wood, the one choice that I made today to help the environment forward, the one moment where I was able to say, Did one more person experience love or kindness or connection? And what the difference of that one thing might make? Even in ways that we don't understand. 

Chris Roberts  13:49

I like what both of you guys have said. And I like the notion of being a contributor. Right? I think sometimes when I think about legacy, I think about like, what am I as this one individual in the world going to leave behind? But really, I'm part of a bigger story, I can contribute to what others are contributing. 

Christina Roberts  14:10

Yeah. And I think maybe just to add to that, I was recently reading how,  in past generations, our heroes or heroines were like the sports stars, the politicians, but nowadays, when you ask people to take surveys of who are who are your heroes? Rarely is it the superstar. It's my grandmother, it's my third grade teacher. It's these simple people that aren't famous, that nobody knows about. But they are our personal heroes. So I think it's interesting, even the shift in culture where we're not as into the glitzy glamor anymore. It's more personal to your point, Kristina, the one that's really made a difference in my life and in my small circle of influence, so I appreciate you naming that. 

Yes. Thank you. What a generative conversation that we've had today. Now is the part of the podcast where we transition to what we are into. What are we into recently, folks?

Kristina Kaiser  15:11

I am super into it. I'm so intuitive and it's so recent that it doesn't come until tomorrow. But maybe a few years ago, a friend of mine introduced me to this coffee from New Mexico, this Pinyon coffee. And though I think it's indigenous coffee, actually, because she is Navajo herself. So there'll be tons of cinnamon or chocolate and we ordered just a ton of it. And it's coming tomorrow and I cannot wait. That is what I am into right now.

Chris Roberts  15:44

Well, I am into explaining effect pedals to my daughter. Someone recently gifted my child with an amazing all in one pedal.  It has compression, delay, reverb,  it has all these things. And so I'm like, that's sort of like a Cadillac for someone that's just learning to drive, or a Bentley or wherever you're listening to from the world, whatever your most amazing car is for someone who is just learning to drive. So I've taken on the task of teaching these different effects and what they do. And so starting with overdrive and distortion and moving into delay. And so it's been fun for me to sort of go back to the basics of how these different effects play out in the mix, and to teach that to my child. So I've been into effects pedals.

Christina Roberts  16:53

Well, I am into mail order mysteries.  I was recently at someone's house and we were talking about indoor things for the kids. And she showed me this amazing thing that she ordered for her kids. It’s these clues that come in and you kind of solve the mystery.  Just this morning, I was looking at the website and there's four choices and I made my choice and so I'm not quite sure when it will ship. But by the time this podcast airs hopefully I will be enjoying mail order mysteries with my children.  

Chris Roberts  17:20

Well, thank you for joining us. And if you enjoy listening to the podcast, we invite you to sign up for our bi-weekly newsletter. You can find a link in the show notes or subscribe at thecontemplativelife.net.  It was great to be with you.