Ep 55 How "Yes, And" Empowers Us

“Yes, And” has been a powerful tool in the improv world for years. But recently, it’s been hitting the business world as a way to foster connection and creativity. And today, we talk about it from the perspective of the spiritual life. How can “Yes, And” help us remain in open and expansive places as we relate to people in every area of our lives? Join us as we consider where the sticking points for “Yes, And” may be as well as where each of us is feeling motivated to employ these two empowering words in our day-to-day experiences. 

#Listening
#Improv
#ExpansiveListening
#KnowingYourself 

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Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

“yes and”, expansiveness, improv

Dominic Kaiser  00:06

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens.

I'm Christina Roberts.
'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser. We're glad you joined us.  

Kristina Kaiser  00:24

Hello, it's great to be with you. Today we're talking about how the words "Yes, and" can be this great source of empowerment in our lives. And perhaps it's helpful to first say that what we're not talking about here is always saying yes to everything that comes our way.  Obviously, sometimes no, is both necessary and an appropriate response. But for instance, when it comes to working with others, and brainstorming for the future and having a conversation, it turns out that a posture of "Yes, and" can be really helpful. 

So for those of you who may not be familiar, "yes, and" is a well-used practice in the acting world, particularly improv. But not only that, it's additionally even picking up traction in the business world. In fact, at this point, you could do a blog search on Google and find that there's all kinds of resources. So they will tell you a "no" at the business table is going to be a straight up creativity stopper, a "no" will automatically shut down all conversation, which we'd kind of expect, I suppose. But if you can believe it, what they actually say, is that "yes, but" is even worse, because for just a split second, there's this yes, that comes out. And it brings in all of this hope that we're going somewhere, we're gonna do this. And then if that yes, is followed up by that word, "but" suddenly, it becomes this moment of betrayal, a disconnecting moment, instead of a connecting one. And so, as I have studied and looked into all of this, I've found it kind of interesting from a spiritual perspective.  Because for one isn't connection to others one of our biggest goals in the spiritual world? And if we keep going from there, in terms of things that we're working on, many of us are trying to do things like remain open, reduce our rigidity, being able to flow a little bit less than our tendency to judge, all of which are things that the spirit of “Yes, and” can help with. And so, as we kick off the conversation today, I would love to hear any of your experiences with “Yes, and” or what sparks in you even now, as we start talking about it.

Christina Roberts  02:48

I think for me, I've seen this show up in some of my spiritual guidance, spiritual companioning sessions. And as I'm listening to someone bring forth something, really wanting to validate what they're saying, even if it's maybe something that I don't agree with, or would want to challenge. Yes, I hear that. And this also brings up for me XYZ and maybe posing a question. And so to me, I have found this space in my own life, when I purposely use that word, I find the expansiveness of trying to listen and receive what the other person is saying. And also, can we crack that open a little bit more in our conversation.

Chris Roberts  03:26

I love that you bring up that this is starting to show up more. I think where I've experienced creative shutdown is mostly in the workforce.  I like to think of myself as a creative person. And when there's an openness to possibility, it seems as if there's an openness to you. And I think what we're talking about here is that we're just open to others, to their ideas to what's coming up. And I love that this is starting to emerge more in society, in places that you wouldn’t think that it would.  You know, it's my way or the highway, these rigid systems and structures. So I love that it's starting to make its way into places. I think whenever you have a yes and approach to relationships, right, because essentially, we're just all relationally connecting and doing work together. But when you have a “Yes, and”, I think you have an approach to a healthier, a more valued centered ethos in the workforce. So yeah, I really like that your readings and findings are saying that this is making an emergence in society. 

Kristina Kaiser  04:40

I feel like even as both of you are talking, I'm reminded of all the places where we're talking about the fact that it's hard on us, we are looking for validation. And sometimes I will read that as humans, we tend to be really hard on ourselves. We judge ourselves a lot, and I won't necessarily feel that in my day to day.  I'm walking along, I'm doing this usual thing in my life and this usual thing. But as soon as you are in a connected moment with another human, you're almost immediately looking to feel like that person cares about you, values your opinion.  At least I am.  And so, I think that sense of, yeah, let's, let's explore that for a minute. Or let's give that a try. It's not even that somebody's thing has to work out to its inevitable end. I mean, does anything really? Don't we always have to shift around?  But that feeling of No, not you. It's so easily drummed up in our psyche, I guess a little bit. So I do think it's been a big deal in the works.

Christina Roberts  05:47

I think the pandemic has also provided an opportunity where we're having to do a lot of “yes and”.  We're thinking about hybrid types of situations. I think it's really easy to get caught up in the no, you can’t, you're limited, nope, nope, nope, door shut, which is also part of our reality. But I think when we're looking for the “Yes, and” I think our brain kind of looks for different opportunities and ways to engage, which I find super helpful and open.

Chris Roberts  06:13

I think the thing that is most challenging about “Yes, and” is time.  We're limited in our time. And so I think no, is just a quick response. I don't have time where it plays out in my life with my children, they're all very creative, and they want to try things out of the box. And a lot of times, I think what is the healthiest thing is to let it play out to say yes. And even though I know it might not work, it's a better lesson for them to learn by experimenting, and trying something than for me to say, No, it won't work. As I think about this. Yes. And I think we have to view our time. differently, we have to actually have to say this is a relationship that I want to foster I want to care for. And if I let this time be taken up now, I think in the future, I'm going to get that time back if I let them learn this lesson. Now. I'm going to get that time back. But a lot of times we have a, you know, a scarcity with our time. And so I can see why no is so attractive. Whenever we're thinking about creativity, we're thinking about doing things out of the box, not to say that the allure of No. Doesn't, doesn't come upon me. It does. And sometimes you do have to say no, but I think also you have to think I'm going to get this time back if I let this lesson play out right now.

Kristina Kaiser  07:51

It's a beautiful point. I mean, time is absolutely a struggle. And it is so much easier to say no than it is to open up my own creativity for how could yes and work in this scenario. And I even think when it comes to parenting, the yes and towards myself is becoming important. So if I'm going to say yes to you, I need to say yes. And I will give time to myself. I mean, our kids just had time off. And they all like to talk at the same time. And it just feels like all day, there's a Mom, mom, mom if I'm not responding fast enough. And then if there's like too many, then somebody starts clapping. Like there's so much demand. And so I do find that I have to say yes, I will give to each of you. And I will give time to myself, or else you might not exist tomorrow, like there will be enough patience in me. But also, yeah, there is creative stuff, right? They do come up with a lot of creativity, you are so right. And it is a challenge to keep going. Yes, let's see how that feels to you.

Christina Roberts  09:08

We're kind of framing this in a contemplative perspective and contemplative spirituality.  I think even recognizing I'm hearing in both of you this idea of abundance versus the scarcity. And as we relate to God, our images of God, God has that posture of generosity towards us, and a willingness for us to try and to experience the things as children of the Divine. And so, I think that feels very freeing that I can do things and maybe it's not going to turn out or maybe I will have something down the road that comes of it or not, but there's this generosity of posture. Whether it be spiritual practices or our mindsets or ways in which we approach God that just seems really full and abundant as we're talking about this “Yes, and” space.

Kristina Kaiser  09:51

Yeah, that's so beautiful. And I'm even calling to mind that whole self-care aspect of it. If you're in a helper profession, yes, I will hear your story. And I will let your story go. That's just a huge aspect of it. Because the other possibility is, I will hear your story. And I will hold on to it. And it will become my story too. So I will hear your story. And I will let your story go is a huge aspect of self-care. It's funny how it both works in the boardroom, and it works in your personal life. 

Christina Roberts  10:26

Kristina, I really value what you're saying. I will receive your story, and I will let it go. Because I think that in this conversation of Yes, there are also boundaries. There's also some times where there is a “no”.  There's the famous Bible verse, Let your Yes be Yes. And your no be No. I think sometimes, as we're doing the “Yes, and” we recognize in this space of openness and possibility and abundance, I am recognizing these actually are my continual yeses and this actually becomes and turns into a no.  We can find some of those boundaries and pruning or stripping down of things to have really solid yes in our lives. And so I think as I'm listening to us today, to me that “yes, and” opens us up to possibilities and maybe new ways. But I'm wondering if from that then comes discernment into my ongoing yeses, where you know, this has been a yes and for right now, but ultimately, that's not going to continue, we're not going to indefinitely have these yeses. What do you think about that?

Chris Roberts  11:25

Yeah, I really like that. I sometimes think “Yes, and” can appear to be too loosey goosey. I don't want to say yes to everything. That feels a little bit too open. Because sometimes in our life, we do need to have boundaries, we do need to say no to certain things. And I think that's where the contemplative can really help. If you know yourself, your limitations, your sticking points, your triggers. You put yourself in a situation and you need to say no, you don't need to say yes. And I think that's healthy, to be able to say no, I'm not, I'm not really going to go there. I don't think the outcome would be great. So I really like what you brought up, Christina.

Kristina Kaiser  12:12

I think that word discernment is just huge. And adding in what you're saying Chris, too, right? It's this process of getting to know ourselves and really getting a stronger sense of flow and this connection to the Divine and our logic comes in. So that in one moment, I am able to say, Yes, this is the way that I like to fill the dishwasher and your way of filling the dishwasher won't keep the dishes from getting clean. So that the relational brakes aren't just falling fast and furious all over our lives. But yeah, of course, right? We still have a sense of agency, and our kids aren't running out barefoot in the negative 17-degree weather, right? There's also the opportunity to say, yeah, you want that short sleeve shirt, no problem. And you need a sweater. Because it's cold outside and they're young. And so, it's going to be that experience. But it happens to me in the business world where someone's going to say, Oh, I think we should spend x amount of dollars on something, or we should go this direction. And something in me is feeling something whether it's usually about me.  Well, if we do that, that's gonna affect my life in this kind of way. And I don't really like that. We really struggle, though, to tell people. I'm having a really emotional reaction right now. We just don't like to say that. So we try to come up with some clever way of getting out of talking about the emotional reaction that we're having, instead of being able to say, Sure, let's give your thing a try, And then let's have an opportunity to evaluate this. Or, Yes, we can give your thing a try, And I'm having an emotional reaction right now. It's just so hard. But the more that we get to that space, probably, the better we're going to feel. 

Christina Roberts  14:06

I think even kind of going back to my point earlier, as I'm sitting with people, and maybe they're bringing an idea or a value that I don't necessarily resonate with and Yes, I'm hearing that in the space and I think sometimes from that, I actually do change. And I hear what the person says with more of an openness and it does shift me a little bit. And other times it doesn't and it actually kind of solidifies where I'm coming from. But I think again, the point being, it's coming from that place of expansiveness and openness, and that's where the discernment comes from, versus I am closed minded. It is only this way. To me that feels very tight and not expansive. And I think from that place of expansiveness, to then be able to clearly say yes or no, to me feels much more contemplative of what we're talking about.

Kristina Kaiser  14:48

Thank you guys so much for this conversation today. It's helpful, it's generative. I look forward to seeing how it continues to play out in our lives. 

And now is the time that we intend to transition to talk a little bit about what we are into this week. So tell me friends, what are you into?

Chris Roberts  15:13

I am into sculpting the perfect mustache. I recently had a trip to visit my family in Texas and I've always admired my dad's mustache. My dad has an amazing mustache. He's been growing it for 50 years and I've coveted his mustache. And, you know, if anybody's familiar with the actor Sam Elliott he has just this amazing mustache. And so during this winter season, I am trying to sculpt the perfect mustache. I have Badger Mustache shaping oil and almond shaping oil and trying to get it sculpted in just the perfect way. So I, I have vainly been into my mustache over the past couple of months. 

Christina Roberts  16:13

Nice. Well, I am into different variations of fire of all things. I'm reflecting on this book, it talks about the four elements:  fire, wind, water and earth. And so I've just really been into fire lately, whether it be our fireplace at night or candles.  I like lighting candles in all the rooms. Sometimes I'll have multiple candles going on in a room, outdoor fire pits, just really appreciating what fire brings.  We're recording this in the dead of winter, so it's appropriate, but just really appreciating fire lately. 

Kristina Kaiser  16:49

Love the fire. And I wish you well on your moustache grooming. I have all the images of what that must look like. I am into puzzles. So every now and again. I feel like I'm getting on a puzzle kick. And for whatever reason, my husband decided to join me this time, but he is doing 3D stuff. So he got these wooden 3D, almost like models and created things. So we needed a clock downstairs and he created a clock which was actually a puzzle that is now on the wall, just so fancy. And then I created this Boston one. So going back to having a way to remember that place that we still love. Puzzles have been all the rage. 

Thank you for joining us today, as you may have picked up on. We very much value community and relationships here at The Contemplative Life. And so we would love it if you had a moment to drop us a line. Let us know where you're listening from. Or even let us know if you have questions or topics that you would like to see addressed here on the podcast. You can find all of our contact information on our website, thecontemplativelife.net. Thanks, everybody. See you all soon.