Ep 51: Divine Encounters

Today we talk about Divine Encounters and how it relates to Epiphany – moments of sudden revelation or insight that can come, sometimes, quite unexpectedly. Join us as we share the ways in which the Divine has broken into our very ordinary moments, changing us, blessing us, and bringing us together with others in surprising ways. May each of our listeners have a moment to slow down, breathe deeply, and find that the Divine has found us in the middle of even our most regular of days.   

Additional Resources
Website: The Abbey of the Arts
Book: Atlas of the Heart by Brené Brown 

#Epiphany
#Magi
#DivineEncounter
#Moments 

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Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
epiphany, magi, divine encounter, liturgical calendar, theophany 

Dominic Kaiser  00:06

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens.

I'm Christina Roberts.
I'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser.  We're glad you joined us. 

Christina Roberts  00:24

Hello, it is great to be with you. Today we are going to be talking about divine encounters, which I know sounds like this big thing. And hopefully we can break it down a little bit today on our podcast. 

For those of our listeners who are familiar with the Christian liturgical calendar, by the time this podcast airs, we will have experienced what is called Epiphany and Epiphany Season. And essentially, this is celebrating the story of the Magi who were looking at the stars and had this insight to see the Christ child.  I'd love to read a quote that I gathered from the Abbey of the Arts on what epiphany means. The quote says this:

“Epiphany means sudden revelation or insight.  Who of us hasn't had a moment when everything becomes clear for a moment, when beauty breaks through the ordinary events in our lives? Those moments can feel slippery, like waking from a dream. We know that something important just shifted inside of us, but that shift is also fragile. And we can easily get lost in the rush of our days.”  

And I like that because I think sometimes we can think of these divine moments with God as like these huge, massive things. And yet this is kind of describing that it can be that.  But it's also the shifts that happen in us. And so I wonder what our experiences have been on epiphanies or divine revelations. Theophany is another word that some traditions use.  How has this looked in our own lives and experiences?

Kristina Kaiser  01:53

So I think, what a fun topic just to get a chance to talk about how the Divine shows up in our lives and especially, that we can pair it with a moment when that's true in our liturgical calendar. So thank you for bringing this to the table. And I'm struck even as we're talking how this can happen in so many different ways, both in moments where maybe we were seeking it a little or other moments where we weren't seeking it at all. 

So I think of a moment, a number of years back in my life, really, at least over a decade now. But I was driving to work. And it's this long highway drive, and I'm just questioning my whole self.   Am I doing anything in the world that's making a difference? Am I just spinning my wheels? What is really the purpose and the meaning of my life? As one does when they're driving.  And as I got to work, I turned on the computer. And I got settled in. And I had just been praying this on the highway, like, what is the meaning of my life God? Is this the right path at all? And I got this email from someone who lived half of a country away who was saying, Thank you so much for everything that you do. I've been listening online. And it's just been really helping me because there's nothing in my area that's even remotely like this. And I just thought you've got to be kidding me. When sometimes people talk about coincidence, and I just feel like, how is that possibly a coincidental moment that I have this whole crisis of self that just moments later very quickly gets an answer?  And I'm also amazed.  That's my story and it's somebody else's story merging.  That person had to feel after how long that today was a day that I just have to tell this person.  Why that day. It is so interesting. 

Christina Roberts  03:59

I appreciate you naming Kristina that sometimes we're seeking these things out. And sometimes it just seems to find us. It just kind of comes out of nowhere, because I think that is such the case. And even thinking back to the Magi story that I mentioned, they were going to work right? They were astrologers by trade. And so it was in their workplace that all of a sudden, it's like Aha, there's this interesting astrology pattern, this star that we're intrigued by. And so this combination of their science, their trade, their knowledge, coupled with this intuitiveness, this nudge to do something. Kind of like you're mentioning, this nudge for this person to reach out to you and to give that gift of encouragement. And then it took a journey, lots of people getting involved in their story, finances, all the things in order to follow that gut intuition. And again, evidently they had this divine encounter that they experienced and that we read about today. And so, I appreciate that the Abbey of the Arts mentions that “contemplative life is never just for its own sake. When we cultivate ways of being that are slower, more spacious, more attentive, more compassionate, we open up portals into these moments of epiphany.” And I think that that's really important to have this idea of opening up the portals into the moments of epiphany.

Chris Roberts  05:16

Yeah, I really love that. It's funny that you mentioned driving Kristina Kaiser. And Christina Roberts, you mentioned just ordinary life, epiphanies happening in just ordinary time.  I have a huge value of being active in the community. And one of the ways that I've done that for a number of years is, I've been a school bus driver. And I would find myself having these epiphanies, you know, driving my school bus.  I had 20 minutes before any child would step on the bus. And it was in the driving out in the country that I would have these epiphanies, God breaking into my work, into the thing that I'm doing.  It would bring clarity, but also love. But the thing that you said at the beginning, Christina Roberts is the fragility of it, right? You know, I have an epiphany, and then a child steps on the bus and it just disappears. And then I'm able to reflect on it and sit with it. And it sort of works its way out in my life. And so I really appreciate just the ordinary aspect of living that happens and bringing the story of Epiphany to us.

Kristina Kaiser  06:46

That is a really big point that you're making. We have this divine moment that gets followed up by a very ordinary moment that can kind of jolt us out and we can quickly fall through our fingers. There is that intentionality of coming back to it. I feel like that's such a big deal that you're talking about there. And I think even as you reflect on that Magi story,  they have to have more than one divine moment, even in that whole experience, because ultimately, King Herod is this dangerous person in their lives. And so they need more discernment later on.  Don't go back that way, don't come back and tell him things. So it really takes another little touch and another little touch in order for that story to really do what it's going to do ultimately.

Christina Roberts  07:34

Yeah, it seems as though there's a phrase called tipping points. I think Malcolm Gladwell is the one that talks about this, where you're doing all of these different things and then ultimately, one day, there's a tipping point that happens. All the things that you've been doing, tend to work for you. And we talk about those light bulb moments or the stars aligning, even in pop culture, we have these phrases. But I think that there is something to that cumulative effect, where it kind of does click, or we do have these moments. And I appreciate your point Kristina. And then there's the follow up to those where there's consequential moments and more moments and more interactions and people and things and risks, etc. And so again, these journeys, and I think sometimes it's just the maybe these catalytic moments that we have, with the divine that then lead us on our journey. 

I was thinking back to when I was a young adult and just trying to really grapple with what does it mean to be generous? What does it mean to trust God with my finances? And oddly enough, I was praying for someone and really felt this nudge to give this person $22, which is like the most random amount of money, you know. And so I was like, Well, you know, 20 bucks kind of seems more round. And it was like, No, I just really felt like I should give $22. So I was like, hey, you know, I gave this person that. And then probably about a week, I don't know, maybe a week or two later, one of my friends from another part of the country like you're mentioning, Kristina wrote me a letter. She said, Hey, this is the weirdest thing, but I felt like I was supposed to give you $44. And so she had this check for $44. And I was like, wow! And she thought it was really goofy, too, because it was an odd number. But I was like, Oh, you have no idea. That's twice what I just gave another friend of mine. And I'm really trying to learn to trust God. And so thank you for listening to that prompt. And so I think sometimes to your point, there's these fun exchanges where we're learning together to listen to these intuitive things that are small in the moment.  But I think that was really foundational for me in trying to listen to those nudges of generosity throughout the rest of my life.

Kristina Kaiser  09:29

That was a remarkable story. Oh my gosh, I love it.  Showing up to our day to day lives seems to be half the story in a way.  I attend this Interspiritual Meditation once a week these days, and it's kind of new to me. I don't know what I'm doing. But there's like seven things that we will sit with each and every time we come.  May I be happy and healthy. May I be grateful.  May I be compassionate, and it goes all the way on by the time you get to seven, it's May I be in service to all. And a lot of times I get to the end, and I think in service to all is way too many!  I don't want to be in service to all, that's too much. But one day, that became the most profound moment of the whole thing, where I just had this sense of this opening that we're talking about. It's not like in service to all but what I'm doing today is in service to all.  So it was Christmas time, so I was making a lot of cookies at that time. And so this is my service to all in this moment is just making these cookies. And that's it, there's nothing big and special about it as all that way of being in service to all dropped off. And it was a much more enjoyable experience. But it came out of nowhere, it was quite comforting and quite meaningful. That's kind of how it is, you just show up.

Christina Roberts  10:59

Yeah. And going back to, again, the Abbey of the Arts that I've been reading from it. She also has this quote that “our world is starving for new revelation, new insight, new dreams and visions. And the only way to arrive is through commitment to slow down and see more deeply.”  And I think that that's so true that we are looking for the new. And I think what I appreciate about the story that you just shared Kristina is that it's this habitual thing that you're going to and in that habitual place, there was this new portal that opened for you with that particular line on that particular day. And I think sometimes the newness can be kind of the next shiny object, the new thing and not being content with what is. And somehow in those moments, that became the opening up place that I think even this woman is talking about with the Abbey of the Arts.

Chris Roberts  11:44

Yeah, I like you mentioning, just an openness to new things. And I've had an amazing past couple of weeks. And I think I've had an amazing couple of weeks, because I've been with my family a lot. And we've been out of our normal routine, we've had lots of new experiences. I looked at my screen time a couple of days ago, it was down like 93% from the week before.  Our habits, things that we used to do, we had an openness to new experiences. And I just found the divine in so many of our outings, going on walks, going on different trips with my family. And I really want to look for new ways to do that in the future, to set aside specific times where I can just get out of my routine, open myself up for new experiences of God, new experiences with my family, it's so rewarding spiritually and rewarding relationally as well. So I appreciate you bringing that up.

Christina Roberts  12:58

Well, thank you for such a generative conversation. It's been a delight talking about divine encounters with God today.

Christina Roberts  13:10

So this is the part of our podcast where we talk about what we are into this week. So what are we into?

Chris Roberts  13:16

Well, I have been into music a little more than normal lately. We have gotten a few more instruments added to our family's music collection. And my oldest child got an electric guitar and is all about me teaching her electric guitar. And so she's kind of into, I guess, angsty teenage stuff as all teenagers are. She's drawn to sort of minor aggressive sad stuff. And so I thought oh, you know, I should break out the Dorian Mode and play some of these minor chords with my child. And so I've really been into the Dorian Mode, relating with my teenager.

Kristina Kaiser  14:08

That's quite remarkable, like things you would not expect to come out. I'm into the Dorian Mode because it helps me connect to others in my family. Amazing. 

So for Christmas, one of the things that the grownups got excited about was the arrow garden.  We are currently growing herbs and lettuce above our dryer, and the dryer is kind of a room that is off to the side, which is a really important aspect of this because the light to the arrow garden is quite bright. So there will never be another need for light in the washroom ever again. But the fact that we can have fresh herbs in the dead of winter is all the rage and we keep looking to see how close it is today to a moment where we can actually harvest it. It does go pretty fast. We're just over a weekend and all the sprouts are up, so here we go.

Christina Roberts  15:04

Very interesting. That's cool, Kristina. Well, I am into Brené Brown's latest book called Atlas of the Heart: Mapping, meaningful connection and the language of human experience. And I have to say it's almost like a text book of emotions. And she kind of breaks down different emotions that we feel in trying to help us as human beings to expand our emotional language and experiences and expressions. And so I'm just into the book, but boy, it's rich and I think it's going to be a resource book for me for many years to come. So I am into Brené Brown. 

Well, thanks for joining us today. If you enjoy listening to the podcast, we invite you to sign up for our bi weekly newsletter. You can find the link in the show notes or subscribe at the contemplativelife.net. 

Until next time, make it a great week. Thanks for joining us.