Ep 43 Living into Meaning

We all come to those moments in life where we find ourselves asking: Is this it? What’s the most I can hope for? 

Thankfully, many people today are feeling evermore empowered to tackle these questions. Just because we’ve been headed down one particular path doesn’t mean we can’t make adjustments.  And so today, we talk about living into our meaning, about finding that meaning a little bit at a time, and about putting ourselves in settings that help us explore all of that in a way that feels best for us. Join us for an inspiring jaunt into this engaging topic.

Additional Resources:

Book: The Power of Meaning by Emily Esfahani Smith
Ted Talk: There’s More to Life than Being Happy by Emily Esfahani Smith
Book: Falling Upward by Richard Rohr
Philosopher and Writer: Allan Watts
TV Series: Stargate SG-1
Clarifying Shampoo: Un-do-Goo Malibu Shampoo

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#FeelingsWheel
#Meaning
#Purpose
#Happiness

Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

life, meaning, belonging, purpose, transcendence, Emily Esfahani Smith

Dominic Kaiser  00:06

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens.

I'm Christina Roberts.
I'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser, we're glad you joined us.  

Kristina Kaiser  00:24

Hello, it's great to be with you. Today we are talking about living a life of meaning, living into our meaning. And I recently had this topic come up for me again, as I was engaging with the work of a woman named Emily Esfahani Smith. And so if you are interested in her, we'll put some information in the description. She has a book called The Power of Meaning, she has a TED talk called There's More to Life Than Being Happy. And that's actually the thing that caught me was this notion that what she was talking about was that happiness is not as important as meaning. In fact, it's the other way around. Life needs meaning more than it needs happiness, we need a reason to get out of bed, we need a sense of purpose. And so I thought we might start there, because I can track with her just fine. But it is so shocking to hear that these things might be ordered, that somehow happiness is lower than meaning in some way. 

Christina Roberts  01:25

I think this is such a relevant topic with just what's going on globally in our world. And I think that the pandemic, you know, we had referenced a different podcast about the great resignation. And I think back in April, millions of people quit their job. And even just this week, I was reading some more articles about how people are unsatisfied and not wanting to go back to their work and really thinking about the meaning of life in light of the pandemic. And so, I think for sure that this is relevant.  I wonder if generationally speaking, I think a lot of times, the message that boomer parents gave to their children was, I just want you to be happy, right? That is sort of the end all be all: I want you to be happy. And yet, it seems like younger generations, of course, want that. I'm not saying that we don't, but there is something that we want our life to impact, have meaning, make a difference in the world, some of these different phraseologies that I think really matter to us. And so I think that's why if I'm unsatisfied with my job, I don't have to keep doing this. Or maybe I want to go back to school to get some new training, or I'm going to backpack and explore what's out there. And so I think, definitely, it's been heightened, in my opinion, through the pandemic, and post pandemic.

Kristina Kaiser  02:39

That is a totally great point. And even as you're talking, it's causing me to reflect on, Yes, there's these numerous moments in life, we're all kind of sitting back and asking, is this it? Is this what I thought would happen when I went on this particular path? Is this scratching the itch of what I want in my life?  I'm thinking of Richard Rohr’s notion of first half of life, second half of life, right? We build a container, which probably focuses a lot on our happiness, and does this thing, brings me joy and makes me feel happy. But his big emphasis there is on the second half of life.  It's really more about finding meaning, and what is it all about.  All that stuff that I was fighting for, maybe takes a backseat, maybe it's not as important as something else in my life. So what you're saying is ringing a lot of bells.

Chris Roberts  03:36

Belonging is something that we achieve or should achieve early on in our lives, right?  We belong to a family unit, and there's this sense of connectedness to one’s own family. And then as we get older, you know, I think purpose becomes, we leave that family unit and we set out on a journey to figure out… What is our purpose in life? I see the order that this could take shape in one's life. And one of my late night conversations that I mentioned in a previous podcast with one of my daughters, we were talking about this idea of purpose. And, you know, she was bringing up there's so many people that are doing things that aren't their purpose that they're uniquely created to do. And she was talking about doctors, being doctors for the money instead of to help bring healing to people's lives. The purpose of being a doctor is to be a healer. And I thought, Wow, she's, she's getting it at such an early age. And I was just delighted with our conversation that maybe this generation that's coming up is starting to look at purpose sooner than previous generations.

Kristina Kaiser  04:57

Yeah, it's interesting that you're citing these things because in this TED talk, she names these four pillars, which apparently also come up in the book. And I haven't read the book, but in that TED talk, she says, in order to have this life of meaning, a person needs a sense of belonging. It doesn't matter… you might get that in a spiritual community, you might get that at work, you might get that in your family, that might change. But you need belonging, you need purpose, you need storytelling, and you need this thing she calls transcendence. Loosely, I would translate to spiritual connection, spiritual experience. Transcendence feels like two grand of a word for me. But yeah, she lists these four things: belonging, purpose, storytelling and transcendence. And I wonder, even in the example of the doctor, is it possible that we do start initially for the money, and then as time goes on, the money becomes our norm. That's what we're used to, it happens, we have security. And now maybe we do look at meaning, even if we started with a different motive. Or maybe they start out in a medical profession and then they realize, like, that is not where I find meaning and there's a total about-face that happens later on in life.

Christina Roberts  06:16

And you know, something that I've been in conversations with this past week, is I think, sometimes we can put so much anxiety and stress around finding my meaning, finding my purpose, what is it? And it's like, this big puzzle that we have to figure out with God.  What would it look like instead to, in the day to day, be like, What is my purpose for today, or what's the meaning that I can find today? Kind of breaking it down into a little bit more ordinary life versus like these grandiose, I have to find this big thing. And so even studies that talk about longevity of life, and there's a community, I want to say, in Japan, I could be wrong about that. But, you know, essentially part of their meaning and purpose is cultivating gardens and having conversation with one another, and elderly communities. You know, again, the purpose doesn't have to be I'm like going out and curing cancer, that's awesome, if that's part of your, you know, job description. But also cultivating this garden plot and sharing vegetable soup with the neighbor and having conversation for an hour. That is also part of that. So I think that's what you're talking about, as well, Chris, that belonging and purpose kind of going in together and telling the story. There's something about that, that is sort of like fuel in our tank, if you will, and connects us to the greater.  Again, there's our life then that greater meaning of life as just being a human on planet Earth.

Chris Roberts  07:34

I really like what you're saying about life in the ordinary. And I've been listening to Alan Watts recently who is a proponent of some of the things that we're talking about, looking for life, in the ordinary day to day life.  He says, we're always looking for life to happen in the next combination of experiences that we're going to have. And if you don't look at the now you're going to miss life entirely. Because if you're looking for that next moment, to achieve this thing of transcendence, or however you want the spiritual connection or experience, you're going to miss what's actually happening in your life now. I really think that this conversation is super important to many, many people out there.

Christina Roberts  08:17

Yeah. And I think earlier that this idea of happiness and meaning, I think definitely there are times when I may be setting aside the emotion of happiness for a meaningful moment. And so, you know, my son's really into Curious George books right now.  I've read enough Curious George.  It doesn't make me happy to sit down and read again about George discovering whatever it is that George is going to get into. And yet I set that aside, because this is joyful for my son. And there's something beautiful about connecting over the story of this curious monkey with my kid on the couch. And he's delighting in these discoveries. And so, you know, even that notion earlier about meaning is greater than happiness. I think for sure that's the case. If I was all about my happiness, I would not be doing that. But I think sometimes we set that aside for a greater thing. Again, that's a small example, but I think that it definitely rings true for me.

Kristina Kaiser  09:04

I super appreciate what you're saying. So I was just talking yesterday, I wonder if I lost meaning. Even as we're having this conversation, there’s a couple of things connecting, do I lose meaning because I was really focused on my suffering, right? So happiness and suffering is probably where we're just trying to get out of suffering, probably. So it's probably why we've been settled on. I just want to be happy.  But I was saying in terms of your daily sufferings are miniscule and small, but it is what it is. So yesterday, my suffering is being up too many times in the night because this one's coughing, and the cat starts yelling and whatever. And now it's morning. And so I know I've got to go through this whole day and I feel really exhausted and how am I just going to enjoy this moment? And somebody said something about, you know, it's maybe it's just looking at this moment right now, sort of like what you're saying with the Curious George book.  Look, I'm with my son. And look how cute he is in his eyes and his smiling face. And isn't it so wonderful? Now when I think about that as an exercise with us, I should in the future enjoy looking into my child's eyes if I don't get anything that does not feel fulfilling unless I am actually living it, I think is the reality. But it's bringing it all up and how they even can tie together. Where's my belong? Well, I've got this family. I belong in this family for sure. My purpose is to read to my child in order to get them to learn how to read. It is to be with me, but there is purpose as we sit there, and we're sitting with them. And then I get to tell this story. It's just unfolding. And I'm actually discovering the meaning as it happens.

Chris Roberts  10:53

Yeah, and I like that you bring up that life is not just happiness, it's suffering. I think it was the Buddha that said, Life is 10,000 joys and 10,000 sufferings. I wish we experienced them in equal amounts, I think you bring up a good point, that suffering is a part of life as well as happiness.

Christina Roberts  11:12

And happiness, again, is just one emotion in like a swath of so many emotions. And I think we've talked about this before, right? Like these, feelings wheels, emotion wheels, that often in contemplative circles we use as tools to help identify more emotions. And so I don't like that it would be a non-diverse, boring life. Actually, if I was happy all the time, that doesn't sound appealing to me, where, you know, being curious, being interesting, all the things right, I think really make a well rounded, robust life. And I think for me, personally, I would rather experience all the emotions than just be limited to happy that feels kind of, I don't know, small.

Kristina Kaiser  11:50

To me, that is a very helpful point that happiness is actually an emotion and meaning is something beyond emotion, which we can look for it, we can have these various ways. But I do appreciate this storytelling thing, especially as I am in the middle of life, there's enough life lived to want to say, what was the meaning of what happened here? Where are we going with this? What's the meaning and purpose behind it? So in that sense, I even appreciate the notion of spiritual companioning. In a time set aside, where I can tell my story, someone can reflect my story back to me, a very useful tool in the midst of trying to discover meaning.

Chris Roberts  12:36

Yeah, and I've heard the term spiritual companioning that the actual definition is “listening someone into an awareness of their own story”. So I really like that definition. To help us look at how we connect with our own story, I think it takes somebody listening to us, listening to the themes that come across, and saying, Hey, I noticed this kernel. It's in connectedness that we experience belonging to our own story. So I liked that point that you brought up, Kristina.

Christina Roberts  13:05

Just recently, I was in a spiritual companioning session, I was the recipient. And I was actually experiencing a happy, joyful moment and trying to find meaning in that and not having to find a problem to solve or to fix. I think the person who was companioning me at that moment was a peer of mine. She was like, I didn't know what to do, because I'm so used to suffering and the problem to work through. And so it was this beautiful exchange we had of, No, we can actually soak in the gratitude of this and find meaning in the happiness rather than just let that pass by as well. So I really appreciate that meaning making and the contemplative tying in with stories.  We're transcending.  I think we're all thinking that's a really big word. But again, I think that those experiences and the meaning and the connection can happen all the time, day to day in our lives.

Kristina Kaiser  13:52

I think so too. And I've really appreciated people lately who have called to my attention this notion of if you really want that interior world, you want to have a sense of like, whereas God, explore your exterior world and explore what's going on because God is in your world. And that sense of transcendence is in these things that we're talking about, which I really appreciate as a way just to make it real and accessible. Well, thank you guys. This is a great conversation. I appreciate being able to process some of it. There's a lot of meaningful nuggets that I want to take with me into my day.

Kristina Kaiser  14:31

Now is the time in our podcast where we take a moment to talk about what we are into. What are we into today?

Christina Roberts  14:39

Well, I am into travel plans.  Our family will be traveling down south to Texas here coming up soon and my husband and I will be celebrating our 21st anniversary and so that is a very fun, happy occasion. And so we are looking into making some plans while we are down there to get away. So that is what I’m into.

Chris Roberts  15:00

Yeah, I feel like I should probably be into that as well. And I'll just state that I am into that, theoretically, but on a more practical and tangible level, just to prove that you're not the only sci-fi fan out there, Kristina Kaiser. I've been into Stargate, which happens to have a theme that we've been talking about this transcendence notion. Stargate SG 1 is the Sci Fi where people travel through these gates and there's this ancient civilization that's left behind these gates, and everybody's wondering what's happened to them. And these ancients apparently have ascended, they are like, no longer matter, you know, they don't have bodies. There they are in the realm of, of being that transcends body and matter. So I've been into Stargate SG 1. So you're not the only sci fi geek out there.

Kristina Kaiser  16:03

Well, that is exciting. I haven't even seen that so I'll have to check in with my husband and see if I can catch up. And Happy Anniversary in the near future. That’s exciting. I am not into anything super deep. But as it turns out, I needed a way to deal with the hard water for my hair. And so the salon that I go to suggested a shampoo called Undo Goo by Malibu and it smells lovely. It's very citrusy and it is getting the gunk out of my hair so that it does what it's supposed to. And that is what it means to have a day-to-day life is to just be excited about shampoo. 

Well, thank you so much for joining us today. If you are looking to go deeper into your spiritual journey, we do invite you to check out the spiritual direction page on our website. There's all kinds of practical information there about spiritual direction and companioning. And until next time, make it a great week. Bye everybody.