Ep 41 Four Forms of Compassion

A lot goes on, both within ourselves and in the world around us. And all of that can leave us feeling very unclear about how to engage. We often want to show up with a spirit of generosity, but we just don’t know how. Today’s episode breaks down 4 specific ways of being compassionate that can help us engage in manners that feel healthy and sustainable. 

Join us as we have a concrete conversation about the notion of “what is ours to do.”

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Transcript

 SUMMARY KEYWORDS

compassion, resilient, rooted, rootedness, eyes, contemplative

Dominic Kaiser  00:06

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens.

I'm Christina Roberts.
I’m Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser, we're glad you joined us.  

Kristina Kaiser  00:24

Hello, it is good to be with you. Today we are taking some time to talk about four forms of compassion.  (Not that there would only be four in the world, but that there are at least four that we can talk about.)  And I have found a little bit of inspiration around this lately, actually, from Jesus's life. So Jesus takes this time in Luke 11, and verse 34, to talk about, When the eyes are healthy, the entire body is full of light. And it turns out that this other word for healthy there is generous… when the eyes are generous. So there's this kind of notion of when I am seeing the world in generous ways, I feel generous, right? There's all this generosity in me and flowing from me, which brings up all sorts of things. I was recently in a training, where we read this article, "What is ours to do?", which can be a very open-ended question; it can feel very fluid. What is ours to do?  I've discovered that I have a lot of "s" brain tendencies from the Myers Briggs things that are practical and concrete, they help me to organize my world and get things out and feel like I know what's going on. So I ran into some information recently, that was very s brained, and I'm excited to have a conversation about it. So these four forms of compassion, maybe we'll just go through them one at a time, so we can kind of sit in them. But one possible form is this thing that I'm calling presence. And so in order to think about these, I kind of created these images of self in the mind. So imagining that one's arms are out and fully extended, the eyes are open, the ears are open. This is kind of our form where maybe we can't always fix things, but we can always be available, we can always listen. And so presence, arms open, eyes open, ears open, fully present, that's the first one. 

Chris Roberts  02:19

I like the description that you've given of the forms of compassion and I really can see how this could be beneficial in viewing the world. But just being honest here, I think presence is probably my most difficult way of being in the world.  I really have to set an intention to be present. And I think this is where I've done different listening schools in my life and taking in different literature, even though this may be challenging for some people to give people presence, like to be fully with someone. Just stating for myself, that it can be challenging. I think it can be done; we can learn to be present to people and open to who they are. And I think, you know, we gravitate towards certain individuals in life.  I can totally gravitate towards sports people or people that love to be outdoors. I think there's so many different individuals in life. And if we want to receive from everyone, I think we have to be generous and open ourselves to other types of people. I find it to be hard, but doable.

Christina Roberts  03:30

I find myself really struck by your opening Kristina about the eyes. And if the eyes are full of light, health, generosity, that's how we show up. I think that is so meaningful in “what are my eyes looking for”?  Are my eyes looking for the light in the other as I'm holding presence and space? What is both coming in and coming out of what I'm seeing? So I think that's  profound. I've actually read that Bible verse before and it's like, what does that even mean? Like if your eyes are full of light, you know, your pupils dilate more? I don't know? But I think this is a really helpful way to frame it. If we want to engage with light and generosity and health, there’s this give and take that I'm hearing from you this morning.

Kristina Kaiser  04:13

Yeah, I appreciate what you're saying, in terms of this is not an easy space to be in, at all times. And in fact, some of the things that I've read are even like, Nope, it's like a practice that you have to work to develop it. But I also appreciate the notion that I can always fix it. I think we're a “fix it” culture, right? Like, oh, something's wrong, let me fix it. So to be able to sit in, I'm just going to be present for you. And I keep doing this with my arms that you won't be able to see since it's a podcast, but this opening... I'm just going to be here. I'm just going to be present, which does take a lot of breathing, right. A lot of centering in the body.  But I hear you. Maybe I'll give us another one we can keep adding on and we can go backwards and forwards if we want.  So another form is this notion of resilience. And so in this one, the form that I imagined was, now instead of arms being out there, they're more up like a tree. So we have this notion of branches that are fully extended and roots. So maybe our feet are like, fully rooted into the ground. And so wind can come and it moves us, right? We feel the effects of the wind, it's there. But it doesn't break us. We are resilient, we have our presence, we have this notion of also being able to be resilient as the struggle comes.

Christina Roberts  05:36

So my guess is that this rootedness is what brings their resilience. And I remember hearing somebody talk once that we need to have greater depth in order to have that greater breadth or width or resilience, like you're describing Kristina. And so I think it just kind of piques my curiosity as to what does it mean to be rooted? And how does one maybe engage in this idea of resilience? I don't know if you guys have thoughts on that.

Chris Roberts  05:58

I think life probably can help us become rooted. I think about how we respond to circumstances. I think this is something that I feel like I can identify with. I've gone through so many different seasons of life and circumstances. You know, if you think about a tree that's endured harsh winds or harsh winters, there's a rootedness to those trees that circumstances have developed. And I find that to be true in my own life, this resilience.  I think that I'm a resilient person. I like what you brought up about keeping your arms outstretched. For me, I think that speaks to the practice of thankfulness, even though you have endured hardship or hard times, there have been many good things in life. And so to be thankful, helps us to be rooted to continue to be resilient.

Kristina Kaiser  06:45

Yeah, these are good questions that you were asking.  What is all this about?  I know very little about trees, but I've been learning more recently. And Chris I think you're already saying it actually, as it turns out, like the storms are good for the tree, because it causes the bark to get thicker. Like with each storm, there's like this kind of durability coming to the bark. And then when the water goes down into the ground, the roots grow longer in order to get go after that water to chase it. And so apparently, there are all these books written on trees that I need to read, like the wisdom of trees and things like that. So when I have a moment, I will go do that. But yeah, I mean, so I wonder too, if this resilience extends to ourselves and to others, if somebody tells us something, and we blow, right, we feel that we're like, Whoa, that's really intense. But it's not going to just drop me. I suppose this is sort of like “consider it all joy, when all of these struggles come against us”, right? A very non favorite, but often quoted scenario of like, all of this is building something in us. I don't know, does that resonate? Does that take us somewhere?

Christina Roberts  08:01

I resonate with what you're saying, as far as you know, maybe as we're engaging with others, something that they say can blow us, maybe it's not just our own thing, but hearing the story of somebody else. And I think that that's very much my life, right? Where I'm hearing, I'm taking in all of this from people. And so I want to be able to take that in with people. And yet there has to be this nourishment that does go down into my own soul where I can't just hold on to those things. And so even this idea of a wind, like it can be shaken off of me as well, I don't have to then take those things down into the depths of who I am.  I can shake those off and then really focus on that rootedness that we're describing. And it reminds me of the Benedictine spirituality, one of their core values is stability. And I was in a retreat years ago, and someone had put this word on the board: stability, and sort of what came up for us.  It was dual.  There was some attraction like, Yes, I want to be a stable person. There's something rooted and appealing to that. But also this idea of like, Is that too static?  If I'm stable, am I going to miss out? And so I think what I'm hearing you describe Kristina is there's a rootedness but there's also movement.  It's not like a steel rod, or something like that, that's dug into the ground. But there's, again, seasonality of trees, movement, those sorts of things. So I think that image I find helpful,

Kristina Kaiser  09:18

Yeah, and there's this ability to be in an emotional space, because I like what you're saying too around, oh, I'm going to be with you and I want to be with you. But that's a lot for me to take in, which kind of brings me into the next form of compassion: awareness. And I find this one super tricky because I have moments in my life where I feel really open to hearing about all the things in the world.  Okay, give it to me, tell me all, and then there are times I'm like, I'm invested.  Then I'm done. And I don't want to hear any more. And then one more horrible thing happens and I just want to get my blinders on. I just want to be alone. And so in this form of compassion, we imagine maybe we have many arms, and we have many eyes, it's just this ability to be there to see what really is. And soon as they talk about this notion of the beginning of understanding is awareness. And so now here I am, and it's still not necessarily an active thing, I just am seeing it. So that's the next one.

Chris Roberts  10:23

Yeah, I like how you frame the question, what are our experiences of awareness?  Having many arms and having eyes that see and penetrate. And, again, I think these all sort of move through each other, you know, they're interconnected.  I think resilience probably helps you be more aware. You know, we're just talking about other people's stories, and  sitting with some of the things that we're hearing, but not taking them into, the depths of who we are. And I think awareness probably helps us in what is the overall, the many eyes, the many, the many hands reaching out. So I like how these forms of compassion can sort of play on each other. So that's, that's why it comes up for me.

Christina Roberts  11:15

I have found a lot of freedom in the practice of awareness, because it's not fixing.  It's not judging.  It's just simply noticing, which is so freeing to me because I appreciate the idea of the many eyes like I can see, I can be aware. And then from that awareness, maybe there's invitation towards action, the hands that you're mentioning.  And maybe there's not, maybe there's just that awareness, and I can let that go and release it. And so personally, as I've been engaging more with awareness.  That is a full stop, like awareness is a thing, it's not like you're aware, so that then you can make a list of 12 things that you can do to change that. So I have found a lot of freedom personally, in the practice of awareness. 

Kristina Kaiser  11:57

I appreciate that note, it's just a full stop. Just knowing and self compassion really plays into this, right? I mean, first of all, I think it's worth it to acknowledge how revelational that image is right?  The being with many arms and many eyes, but this self compassion to be able to, someone described it recently, this is definitely not mine. But the pause and the breath to just say to oneself, this is difficult.  To be there with even oneself.  I hear all of these things, and this is difficult. And then even I can get into a shame sense of, I should have had a better response. And then to just back away again, This is difficult. because that's a lot, right? There's a lot going on in the world. 

I'll give us one more.   So one more is the form of justice. So finally, for our action oriented, we just want to fix it. But it comes out of a different space, right? It's more out of,  I can't help but act. So it's not like oh, I feel obligated to fix,  but I have to do it. And so for some people, maybe that is the justice warrior stance of some sort. Or like my son, I'm going marching. And I feel like in other ways, it might be like, I am armed with my reusable shopping bags, saving the environment, one shopping trip at a time, you know, some like form that we take that says this is mine.  I am doing the thing, I am lessening suffering in the world. So that's the fourth form. 

Chris Roberts  13:33

I think this is you know, where, for me this is the form of justice, where the others really come into play. If I'm doing the others, well, I feel like I do justice. I stand up or I take action for the right reasons, rather than reacting to circumstances, reacting to situations out of an unhealthiness in myself. So that's what comes up for me with the form of justice is like if I have all the others working in my life, all the other forms of compassion, I do justice the right way.

Christina Roberts  14:08

Yeah, and just coming alongside that as well, then justice isn't just a one off thing, but it's actually an integrated part of life. It's sustainable. It's fueled by these other three things that you mentioned, Kristina. So I would agree with you, Chris, that and again, the interconnectedness of all four of these things. It's not just I'm jumping and I think that's our natural tendency, right? As we see the brokenness and suffering and we want to jump to the action, What do I do that's practical, right? And I appreciate that you kind of even naming that it's sequential, but that you name this as the fourth thing.  We're kind of aware of all these other pieces that  are an integrated form. 

Kristina Kaiser  14:43

Even in terms of like if you were doing cognitive type therapies, there are certain thought distortions and they give names to them. And so then you're able to identify like, I am solidly acting out of “X” right now.  This is my “all or nothing thinking”, this is my personification. Thinking similarly here in this business of Oh, I want to be generous in the world, I want to be open, what does that look like? How do I do that? Sometimes I can then say,  I am being present right now, I was just resilient back there, right? Like earlier, that was a resilient moment for me, or I am just sitting in awareness, that's the best that I have right now is just to learn and to know. And then obviously, rightly, I am in full justice mode, I cannot stop myself. I don't know. Are there other ways that this is helpful to you, or anything that like, suddenly comes up as we're having the conversation?

Chris Roberts  15:39

To touch briefly on, I think what this also comes out for me is like, there's a thing known as nonviolent communication or compassionate communication. And I think this helps paint that in a really good light. And so I've appreciated this conversation, as I think about nonviolent communication, or I think about compassionate listening. These forms are super helpful. So thank you for bringing it up today. 

Christina Roberts  16:06

Just the only thing that I would want to maybe re-highlight that you briefly mentioned, Kristina, is self compassion.  That yes, compassion is for the other. But we also have self compassion, and what does it mean to maybe sometimes stand up for myself and have those boundaries or things that I need to name or to be present to myself? Resilient with myself? And so thank you for mentioning that. It's not just the compassion for others, which is so important, but also compassion for self.

Kristina Kaiser  16:30

Yeah, that's an excellent point, right? I am aware of the struggle going on in me, that is also a big deal. And yes, I am thankful to you guys too, because like I said, What a big topic, this notion of being in the world and offering compassion. So thank you to both of you for having this conversation with me.

Now, we are going to transition to the part of our podcast where we talk about what we are into this week. So tell me friends, what are we into?

Christina Roberts  17:04

Well, I am into soup. And this is a sore subject in my household because I love a good soup. I really, really enjoy soups, it doesn't matter, especially in the fall, it's just soup time. And most of my family does not share the same love for soup, perhaps someone on this podcast whom I'm married to.  And so I have decided, you know what, I'm going to embrace soups, I don't care if anybody else wants the soup. I want the soup. So I have been busting out some different new soup recipes that I am excited to make this weekend and try.  So I am firmly, solidly into soup.

Chris Roberts  17:37

Well, I am firmly and solidly into not outing other people. So I have had lots of opportunities to out others recently. And I've actually had to walk through some situations with my daughter recently, some things have come up at school. We've been talking about these, like what emotions come up for you when you're faced with these circumstances and situations. And so the question is, should I tell on them? Should I out them? You know, we've been talking about well, you can do that. But really, I think the important thing is to discuss how you feel with that scenario.  So I am into not outing others

Kristina Kaiser  18:17

That is excellent. Well, I can get on board with both of those things. And soup is a really lovely thing in our household. So you are welcome to, you know, bring your soups here and I'll bring my soups. And I think I am into homemade applesauce these days because it's the fall. And last year we didn't do homemade applesauce sauce, because the year before we did so much that we tried this other thing and it was not the same. So we are making all the homemade applesauce and canning it and jarring it and there was a little bit leftover that wouldn't fit in the jar just too bad for us. And so we got to enjoy all of that. That is my world for now. 

Well thank you for joining us today. If you are looking to go deeper into your spiritual journey, I want to invite you to check out the spiritual direction page, on our website, thecontemplativelife.net. There's all kinds of practical information there about what spiritual direction and companioning is. And you can obviously contact us from there as well. So thank you so much for being with us. And we'll look forward to seeing you again soon. Bye.