Ep 40 Three Ways to Engage the Enneagram

Today we talk about the Enneagram as a way to help us understand how we - and those we interact with - show up in the world. We may hear ourselves asking sometimes: Where does that come from? Why does that happen? Or we may even feel confused about why so many of us aren’t entirely consistent and predictable. The Enneagram helps us with these interactive questions and can help us have more success in our day-to-day experiences. Join us as we explore three unique ways to engage with this diverse personality tool. 

Additional Resources
Video: “An Introduction to the Enneagram” with Kristina Kaiser on our YouTube Page 

#EnneagramWings
#EnneagramArrows
#EnneagramHeadTypes
#EnneagramHeartTypes
#EnneagramBodyTypes
#EnneagramEnergies

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Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
enneagram, energies, personality 

Dominic Kaiser  00:06

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens. 

I'm Christina Roberts.
I'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser. We're glad you joined us. 

Chris Roberts  00:24

Hello, it's great to be with you. Today we're going to be talking about the Enneagram. And just a note, we're going to be talking about some things that are beyond an introduction to the Enneagram. And so if you're new to the Enneagram, we invite you to check out our YouTube page and there's a short video that you can watch to help introduce you to what the Enneagram is.  There will also be a link in the show notes to that YouTube video. 

So today, we want to talk about three aspects of the Enneagram.  Who would like to kick it off? 

Christina Roberts  01:01

One helpful aspect for me is this idea of embracing the energies of the Enneagram beyond your number. So admittedly, I have historically had a love-hate relationship with the Enneagram. I remember probably, maybe a decade ago, many of my friends were super-duper, into the Enneagram. And it was all people talked about when we gathered. What’s your number? Have you checked out this about the Enneagram? 

And I really struggled because I couldn't find my number.  I identified with a couple of different numbers, and it's like, what's wrong with me?  I need to figure out my number. And it became a source of frustration. So I would set it aside. And then sure enough, a few months later, everyone was all excited about the Enneagram. And I thought, Gosh, I might be missing out on these things. And so it wasn't until, I don't remember who I heard, but they introduced this idea that we all have all of the energies of the Enneagram within us.  It's just that there are certain numbers of the Enneagram where we tend to gravitate more naturally, maybe it's a little bit more organic. Oftentimes, if you think about how you were as a child, that can maybe point to some of the core values of the Enneagram that you hold. And I found that so helpful, because while I've identified (and I'll put my cards out here) primarily with 1 energy, I also have a lot of 5 energy as well. And so being able to name that I don't have to be pigeonholed to one number seems to be super helpful for me in now engaging with the Enneagram much more freely, and being able to learn from all the different numbers.

Kristina Kaiser  02:30

I can very much understand what you're saying, My first foray into the Enneagram was in a work environment.  We really did it up, we read a book, we had people come in and speak to us from every number, we were broken off into smaller groups to talk about our experiences. And so, you know, some people are totally more experts on the whole subject than me. But I feel like by the time we finished that segment, as a staff, I had a pretty good sense of what things were. But yes, at first reading this book, I'm feeling like I identify with lots of these little characteristics. And I hear this from people even today, they'll have that sense of, well, I'm a little bit like that. Maybe I am that. And then they'll talk about there's often these definitions resonate so intensely in some particular area. And so for me, that is the 3. But I definitely could find all these little ways in which Oh, that is true of me in different ways. So I hear you, I'm with you. 

Chris Roberts  03:32

I agree with the sort of love-hate relationship with the Enneagram and sort of the struggle with it. I think for me, one of the things that maybe has been unhelpful about the Enneagram is sort of the typecast that, you know, you're like, this is your type. 

And I think I probably most identify with the energies of a 7.  You know, I've had interactions with people saying, Oh, you’re a seven. So sevens typically want to go on to something new. And they really can't stay with something like a contemplative journey. And I found that to be unhelpful, because I think everyone can be contemplative. I think I have energies of other numbers. And so yeah, I really appreciate thinking about the numbers and carrying the descriptions or energies of the number. So I like what you're bringing up as it relates to energies of the number.

Christina Roberts  04:27

And maybe I'll just add one more thing that I found helpful, maybe kind of to your point to Chris is, you know, I think sometimes like if you're a 1, Oh, that means that you're super organized, or you're a perfectionist. And so I think that was part of my struggle with some of the descriptions in the various books or websites weren't hitting me. But Kristina, to your point, I remember there were certain things that actually did, because maybe the language was a little bit different. They called it something different. And I remember hearing someone talk about the different energies and said, You know what, why don't you take a thesaurus of the different types and whatever the words that are highlighted in that, look up those words in the thesaurus and find some synonyms because maybe you'll resonate with the idea even if that particular word isn't helpful to you. And that just opened up a whole world of, I don't have to be locked into this, I'm not a perfectionist in many things. But other aspects, like how I use my time, for example, very much. That is really important to me. But how my room looks and the cleanliness of my room, not so much. So I found that to be helpful as well as we're talking about sort of the energies of the Enneagram beyond our “number”

Kristina Kaiser  05:32

And that's such a common experience, we really hone in on it in just a particular area of our life, not every area of our life. And I think in addition to the energies another aspect that can be very helpful in understanding, like, oh, why do I feel like I'm a little bit all over the place, is this notion of the wings and the arrows.  We're really not a pure anything.  If I'm a three on the Enneagram, my possible wings are going to be two or four. These things that are right next to you. And so in my school years, I was really attached to my four wing, I was all into being as unique as possible. I would go to the store, I would find the most unique clothing and I would buy it. I still have some of those pieces because they're just iconic at this point. And I would write all this poetry, I was very concerned about shallowness versus authenticity. And I really believed in my authenticity, it was a really big deal. My adult life has really exhibited a lot more of my two wing to the point that I don't even think people can find my four wing on some days. But there were moments that came when I was still in college, but a lot of my adult life is all about the helper aspect of who I am. And so that energy comes into play there through these wings. And then there's your arrows you're going to strongly identify with sometimes when you're under stress sometimes when you're feeling really comfortable and things are really flowing. There are four different ways in addition to your pure number that are going to be really unique and authentic to you. 

Chris Roberts  07:11

Yeah, I really have appreciated the wings and the arrows as well. You know, sort of landing mostly as a seven, I find, do I have a six wing or do I have an eight wing?  I think most definitely have an eight wing.  We have a child in our house who is an eight and I find the eight is you know, to be against.  We find ourselves butting heads with each other, sticking up for our cause. And so I really have appreciated the Enneagram as it relates to wings and arrows.  It has been super helpful in my life as well.  Sevens, I think my arrow, whenever I'm in stress, leans towards the unhealthiness of a one and I become a drill sergeant and want order around my house. I give my kids marching orders and convey them very forcefully which doesn't really help the situation. It causes more trouble than what I really want. And, you know, also I think, as a seven, whenever I'm in a good spot, I move towards five.  My arrow moves towards five and I take in lots of information and I want to share my findings enthusiastically, like a seven would.  Whatever it is that I'm into, I share it very enthusiastically. So I've appreciated the numbers, and the wings aspect of the Enneagram as well.

Christina Roberts  08:39

And actually, I would say something that has drawn me more into the Enneagram is this idea that we relate to the world differently depending on if we are under stress in some unhealthy circumstances in our lives that we're navigating, or those more comfortable spaces like you mentioned, Kristina. I think that has also been an indicator again, the broadening of our personality.  There’s fluidity.  Some of the other tests online where you’re a particular letter or whatnot, is super helpful also, but I think this also allows for some of that life dynamic that happens and what it means. So identifying with a playfulness or joyfulness when 1’s are healthy and go to 7.  So when I recognize that, it's encouraging to me. 

Interestingly enough sometimes the things that I see in another person, you know, when you're seeing something mirrored and it's like, oh, okay, is that I'm maybe resistant to that.  Like you're talking about Chris and what does that speak to myself and my wings, arrows, etc.? And so, yes, I appreciate Kristina to your point that there ultimately are kind of five primary numbers that you're navigating frequently in our lives due to the kind of dynamism that just life offers us. 

Chris Roberts  09:54

I think another thing that I found super helpful to consider is the Enneagram as a map. If you look at the Enneagram on a piece of paper, it's got all these numbers, but sort of looking at the enneagram as a map, there are certain numbers that are head centered, there's certain numbers that are heart centered, and certain numbers that are gut centered. And I always thought that I was more of a sort of gut centered person, like I'm very intuitive, I make decisions out of what I am feeling.  But I think the enneagram says that I'm head centered. Really, is that true? Am I head centered?  And since the discovery of that, it's like, yes, I'm in my head all the time. And it's helped me engage with other people that sort of are up here in their head. And it's also helped me understand people that are sort of heart centered. And, and, and people that are gut centered. So that's one of the things that I found helpful about Enneagram, as you know, it relates to serving as a map.

Kristina Kaiser  11:07

It’s funny that you say that.  Recently, I was in this group, and we were doing this meditation. And it gave me this opportunity to notice where you opened up energy wise. And so there were moments where they kind of focused on the forehead, or the head, maybe the throat, the heart, and so it kind of went all the way through. And when we say, I am a three, the three is a heart type. When we got to the heart, I felt so expansive. Whereas like all these other like, moments where we could focus and look for space, I felt kind of constricted and not. But when we get to the heart, I felt so open. And I think back to that whole pigeonhole idea, it could change, right? You could have a day where you feel all this openness in your hands, or something totally different. But I do think that this is a natural space for me to operate out of. And I yeah, I think the other thing you said about oh, I felt like I was an intuitive person, I have felt the same. But there must be this kind of, where does my intuition come from, kind of thing. And then we discover that, oh, we might read our intuitions based on very different places in our body.

Christina Roberts  12:25

Yeah, and when I consider the centers that you're naming, I think about some people that I've worked with over the years that are sixes on the enneagram. And I would say that that's probably the least place where I identify least with.  But I love working with sixes and have really come to appreciate that and understanding that.   I'm a one and so I'm very much gut centered with a nine wing. However, the two wing is heart centered, right? And so the head centered isn't my natural go to, with the exception of how I did say that I do identify some with five. So there you go. But I'm realizing when I'm communicating to my six colleagues, how important it is to have facts and numbers and data and lists and organization and how that brings a sense of security. And so if we're going to expand our conversations and go beyond that, that has to be a starting point. And so I think, Kristina, to your point earlier, as we're learning energies of maybe family members, co workers, colleagues, how that can help us in our communication skills, where’s their natural inclination? And how can we draw the best out of those with whom we interact on a day to day basis. 

Chris Roberts  13:34

I really appreciate the gifts of nines, they reserve their energy, they're very thoughtful, they can sort of see the whole picture. But yet, they're not going to get caught up in the drama, or the emotion of it all. And they're not going to make decisions hastily. They don't even really like to make decisions. And so I think, you know, thinking of it, as a map has helped me, you know, in this current season of my life working with a lot of nines tend to look at it as a map and say, How am I going to best interact with these individuals that seem to be surrounding me in this current season of life?  And so I really appreciated our conversation today. Thanks so much.

We're going to transition to the part of our podcast where we talk about what we are into this week.

Kristina Kaiser  14:50

Well, I am currently into Curriculum Vitaes and Cover Letters. I haven't done any of that for almost 20 years, but I've found myself needing to have a CV and cover letter in the next week or so. So I've been doing a deep dive into these types of things and happily, lots of other people have been doing this more recently so they are jumping in to give me advice and I am so thankful for them. But that is my world right now.

Christina Roberts  15:18

We have had some really lovely weather here in Wisconsin, so I am into convertibles.  Just a little bit of a backstory… My husband is very much gifted in serving people. He loves to help people and we have a neighbor who is a 70 year old widow, but she's fiery. She's great. And so Chris was over there the other day helping her and she has her normal car but she also has this red spider convertible car.  So Chris and I were going out on a date and she was like Why don't you surprise Christina and take her out in the convertible? You guys can enjoy the nice weather.  It’s been a long time since I've been in a convertible, right? We have a minivan and we have a family. You know, back in high school. I had a friend with a convertible and you know, kind of sprinkled throughout my life but it was just really fun to be back in a convertible and kind of feeling free to enjoy the wind and the sunshine. So I am into convertibles.

Chris Roberts  16:11

I'm into this nice weather as well. And one of the ways that I've been maximizing the weather is  getting ready for this winter.  I have been outside in these beautiful temp temperatures, chopping wood, splitting wood.  We have a whole bunch of wood that we've been letting cure for about two years and it is finally ready. I got a sledge hammer and I have a splitter and I have been whacking away and splitting this wood and preparing for winter.  I hear the gas prices are going to be astronomical this fall. And so I am thinking ahead, wanting to provide a different fuel source for our family and enjoying doing it in this nice weather. So I'm in the log splitting. 

Well, thank you for joining us today. If you're looking to go deeper into your spiritual journey, we invite you to check out the spiritual direction page on our website, which includes even more practical information about what spiritual direction and companioning is all about. So until next time, make it a great week.