Ep 35 The Powerful Spirituality of Music

One of the great things about music is the power it has to move us – to draw us out, to speak to us, to help us become more receptive – both to our experiences and to our feelings.

In this episode, we “sing the praises” of music, pointing out how helpful it can be in interfaith settings and how easily it can be paired with other contemplative practices. 

So join us as we talk about the mysterious and mystical as it relates to music. 

Additional Resources:

Music Playlist: https://www.thecontemplativelife.net/resources
Music Playlist also available here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnma9HmG0antFRaGuE0XWA01Gmwnq2xHh

#Inclusive
#Emotions
#Music
#Interfaith

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Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

music, contemplative, silence, spiritual, invite, retreat

Dominic Kaiser  00:06

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens.

I'm Christina Roberts.
I'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser. We're glad you joined us. 

Chris Roberts  00:24

Well, hello. It's great to be with you. Today we'll be talking about music and the contemplative. And there's something about music that I think can reach in to the interior of our lives, that could pull us in a direction that, normally, we might not go. There are other things that do this as well. But today, we want to talk about how music draws us out, could draw us into a space where we can receive more and be open to more. So guys, what do you think about music and the contemplative?

Kristina Kaiser  01:03

Music is one of my favorite subjects, so I'm so excited that we're talking about it! And, I was recently inspired by a blog post that Richard Rohr had put out around music in the contemplative where he talks a lot about kind of the awe, and the wonder, and how these things can be slightly outside of our understandings of this mystical - like - I don't exactly know why that I'm drawn, but I am. And I definitely have observed this in my own life and in the life of others around me. 

I've also sometimes shared: Our oldest is now 13, but when she was a baby, minor chords could make her cry. And 3/4 or 6/8 would create this emotional experience. So sometimes, if we were watching a movie…and just to say again…she's just a little tiny baby, right? Like words are not in her...well, I mean, she did speak early. But still! As a baby! This music would start, and the little tears would come. 

Or, we were trying to record a song, and we couldn't get through it, because she kept starting to cry as soon as the music would play. So these kinds of things - just the deep impact that music can have on the soul, which I have been aware of for many, many years.

Christina Roberts  02:19

Yeah, I think I come into this conversation as a non-musician. I so appreciate Chris and Kristina's gifts in this way. 

And so, I was in a very long season where I actually was, kind of, disconnecting from spiritual-Christian-worship-type music, and really focusing in on “quiet and silence.” And I think in recent years, I've actually kind of reengaged with music on a different level, and specifically, when it relates to music without words, and the ways in which I can experience some of these contemplative practices. 

And, you know, I think I was maybe hesitant at first thinking, “Is this gonna make me feel like I'm back in college, sitting in a music appreciation class, listening to Bach, or these different things?” But there's something about having the music-without-words that brings me into this space, kind of like you were mentioning earlier, Chris, it's like beyond. 

I don't know, it invites me to go deeper. And, I think, when I couple that with silence, there's something about that music-less-word-space that brings me into this, sort of, deeper, spiritual navigation that I'm in that can then lead me into silence in a much, I don't know, like an easier on-ramp, I guess. So I think I'm really compelled to think about how music and silence pair together.

Chris Roberts  03:29

Yeah, I like that. I think one of the practices that we've had during the pandemic is: Everybody has done Zoom Church, or, maybe you haven't. But a lot of people have done Zoom Church. And one of the things that we've just, sort of, stumbled on to is: When we bring people into the Zoom Space, we've been using music that doesn't have words, just mostly instrumental music to, sort of, bring us into that space. And it's really been a fantastic tool to help us navigate this new spiritual experience that we're about to have in this online space. 

And so, I've been on a journey of discovering music without words for a couple of years now. And I think what I personally like about music without words is: It's sort of become prayer for me because, a lot of times I don't really know what to pray, or I'm afraid I'm going to get the word wrong, or not have the right words. And so, I've been finding music that speaks to the deep inner parts of me. And I'll just play that as I'm driving, or I'll play that while I'm on a walk. And it's tapping into a depth of my interior self that I don't know that other things necessarily access. 

And it's interesting that I would go on a walk and play that song, and then I would have silence. And let that continue to let the silence speak, coupled with the music. So I really appreciate what you're saying, Christina.

Kristina Kaiser  05:26

Yeah, I think this reminds me a little bit of our conversations about movement and meditation. Sometimes, a little bit of movement helps us to drop into silence. And I think that the "without words" aspect of it...Particularly, how many people can get invited to the table at that point, then. Say that you're in an interfaith situation, then you don't have to worry: Are these words catching for anybody? But everyone can just be invited to the table in the same way, which is quite lovely. 

And just to say, psychologically speaking, movies already knew this! They know when to give you the soothing music and the haunting music, and to just set the soul up for something. Thankfully, we don't plan to scare anybody, just to say, but there's something about music that does something in the soul space, it seems to me. So I am super into that. 

And I think...And...Right? I also love words. And so sometimes I have found, from a different meditation perspective, sitting with a phrase in a song and just singing it again, and again, to help me work through...

And I realized it's all the emotions. So it could be working through a hard space, it could be being super exuberant, it could be just needing to get something out. 

When you get older, you're supposed to be more proper or something, but I was once pulling up into a parking lot. And the person I was meeting was already there. My music was blasting and they thought, "Who is this kid pulling up next to me?!" And then they turned, and it was me! So I use the music for all the things: To get stuff out, to release, which is a meditative practice, actually, this business of releasing things.

Christina Roberts  07:27

Yes, it's interesting. What comes to mind is a kind of odd story in the Old Testament, where Saul was vexed in spirit, and he would invite David to come play for him, play the harp, I think it was. And there was something about that, that would soothe Saul in those distressing moments. And so even the thought of it...You know, and again, the Bible had limited...they didn't have the mental health language that we have now. So, you know, was he experiencing anxiety, or I don't know what he was experiencing. But there was something about just that harp playing over him that soothed those vexing spirits. And so, I do think there's something about the soothing, calming. Or, you know, the energy of, you know, sometimes we kind of have those louder musics or those crescendos that really, kind of, euphorically bring us into these other spaces. So it's interesting to see the mind-body spirit, as it relates to music...

Chris Roberts  08:18

Yeah. And that reminds me, I led a retreat about a year ago. And I, sort of, wrote an instrumental piece as a portion of the retreat. And I played it on my guitar for the Retreatants. And many of them, at the end said that, that was one of the most powerful experiences that they had at the retreat, was just being able to hear somebody play music over them. 

And so, I think I agree, it can be powerful. And also, I think music can help us tap into things that, maybe, we're suppressing? You know, it's like we don't want to be joyful, and we can hear some music that has a bit of joy to it, and we can say, "Okay, why don't I want to be joyful? This music is joyful. It's trying to pull me into the space of joy. But I'm not wanting to go there." 

Well, grudgingly, I'm going to go there gradually. And then, you find yourself being happy. Or, on the opposite spectrum, there may be something that you haven't wanted to deal with, you know, some reflective music that has got some swells and it just reminds you of something that happened that you've been sort of pushing away, or keeping on the back burner, waiting for a proper time to deal with it. And it can bring it up where it says, "Hey, why don't we go ahead and take care of that now? Let's deal with that now."  And so I appreciate that music can draw us into those types of experiences as well.

Christina Roberts  10:03

Yeah, and, Kristina, I really like what you're saying about the inclusivity of music. And one of my powerful experiences was sitting at a retreat, and they were playing some Native American music. And so it was unfamiliar, I couldn't...It's not like something I had heard before. But, there was something about the drum beat inviting me in and being able to learn from this other culture. 

And again, there wasn't a language barrier. I didn't have to know whatever the native tongue was because it was musically driven. And I think sometimes in our spirituality, especially if we, maybe, come from church situations...we had done a podcast earlier about Ex-vangelicals, and I think, sometimes, "worship music" in that traditional sense can feel triggering to us, because there's phrases in the music where, "I don't know if I no longer agree with that," or, "That line that we're singing raises up like 20 questions for me. And so an integrity, I can't necessarily sing that." 

But I love what you're saying about "just the music itself," that can be an inclusive space for all people who are spiritual, and wanting to connect with the Divine in those ways that are beyond maybe some of the triggers.

Kristina Kaiser  11:06

Yeah, I feel like even Chris's description of…so both actually, your (Christina's) description of the drum, and then Chris's description of something swelling...there is this "rising up." And it can translate in so many ways, right? So I think the pairing of music and how you might end up moving your body. You might end up drawing or painting. Or you might end up moving into repose. Right, there's all these different possibilities that could come as a result of what you're hearing and what you're experiencing. I really appreciate that sense of: It doesn't have to be familiar for it to take you somewhere.

Christina Roberts  11:44

And I also appreciate you as well, Kristina, naming that sometimes there is a phrase that we verbally, in our mother tongue, need to be saying over and over again. And that needs to go deep into our bones. And I think that's also the beauty of lyricists, people that can write lyrics beautifully. And there's something about capturing into words: Oh, yes! You just put into words what I feel. And I think the contemplative aspect of, "I'm going to play that over and over and over again, and let it kind of soak in me..." I think that, that's also very healing and freeing space as well.

Kristina Kaiser  12:15

Yes, I think, too...I mean, I don't know if I've talked about this on the podcast, but that humming that can happen in your face when you sing…That, too, can be a very calming experience. But music, especially if you use your voice for it, just to say...right, because you might feel it more in your chest. You might feel it in your stomach, depending on how you're doing it, which may well access aspects of emotion that you needed to really access. You needed to work through, move through, to a different space.

Chris Roberts  12:15

Yes. So I think some of the themes that I would like to recap for us today is: The idea that music brings about an openness in us that could take us to places that are new. And so I've really enjoyed the conversation with you guys. And thank you so much for having it.

Christina Roberts  13:15

And maybe if I can jump in really quick here, too. Before we hit record, we were talking about Music Playlists that engage us. And Kristina's in a training program, an interfaith one. And so they were sharing that. And so, we would love to hear from you. If there's certain music that you really engage with, we would love to hear that. And if you want to check out our website, thecontemplativelife.net, we will post some of our favorites there as a resource. And we would love to have a place where we can share some of these contemplative music spaces together.

Chris Roberts  13:44

Thanks for listening!

Well, this is the part of our podcast where we transition to what we are into. What are we into this week?

Kristina Kaiser  14:01

I am into "sun-porch moments!" We have...even if it was a little hot, we just turned a fan on. But we've been going out and just sitting and watching the sun, kind of rise, or kind of set, or fully set, as has sometimes been the case. And taking it in, just breathing it in, in all of its glory. So sunporch moments.

Christina Roberts  14:23

I have been into socks lately. So we recently did a kindness thing where some of our communities came together, and we made gift baskets for custodial workers in some of the local schools. Because they've just been working tirelessly with having to deep clean all the time and refill sanitizers. And so we had some gift cards and whatnot. But one of the things in there was socks. And so we've been discussing what are, like "high-quality socks," like there's certain socks you get that are gonna get holes in them, and, you know, maybe last for a while. And so I'm kind of upping my sock-game and loving it. So I have an into nice, thick wool, kind of, hiking socks.

Chris Roberts  15:04

Nice. I could definitely, totally, just be into that right now. Having been a bus driver early in the morning and gotten gifts from my students on the bus, smart, wool socks are like my favorite gift. 

But that's not what I'm into this week. I have been into celebrating victories with my kids. And my youngest has learned to swim this week. Big moments, big moments! He was in the deep end for probably an hour, all by himself, without a noodle, without a life vest, trying to push himself to the bottom of the pool, and just swimming next to the edge. So this has been a big moment for my youngest child this week. Learning to swim. So celebrating him, celebrating wins, celebrating with my other kids too. But we'll just we'll just keep it with celebrating this win with Sean. 

Well, thank you so much for listening. It's been a pleasure being with you. For more resources, we invite you to check out thecontemplativelife.net and like Christina mentioned earlier, we will try to put some helpful playlists up there for you to look forward to in the future. So, make it a great week!