Ep 24 Connecting with God thru Creation

Today we’re talking about some of the many ways in which Nature seems to have the power to bring us in touch with The Divine, allow goodness to flow in our lives, and even help us navigate our more difficult seasons. How we interact with nature may change depending on the season of life we’re in. But somehow, it would seem that Nature can often speak to us like nothing else can. Join us for this exciting conversation. 

#SaintFrancis
#Indigineous 
#Seasons
#NatureMetaphors 

Additional Resources:
Author: Judy Cannato
Author: Wendell Berry
Author: Pat McCabe
Band: Coldplay – Higher Power

For Transcript:
Go to the "Transcript" Tab.
If you are in a player that does not have the Transcript Tab, use the link below
https://thecontemplativelife.buzzsprout.com/1642654/8817024-ep-24-connecting-with-god-thru-creation

Transcript

Dominic Kaiser  0:06  

Welcome to The Contemplative Life. Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens…

“I'm Christina Roberts.”

“I'm Chris Roberts.”

“I'm Kristina Kaiser. We're glad you join us.”

Chris Roberts:

Well, hello! It's great to be with you today. Today, we wanted to kick off a conversation about nature… creation…all the ways that being in the great outdoors speaks to us. Or maybe lends itself to being contemplative in our journeys…And so I have really enjoyed creation/nature, over the past three to four years more than I ever have before. And I think, for me, one of the reasons being: I've been a part of a Franciscan Spirituality Center. And for those of you that don't know, St. Francis is known for talking to the birds, talking to things in nature as well as to people. In fact, he's quoted for saying many times, “Brother Sun, Sister Moon,” and has prayers that are devoted to nature and the outdoors. So I personally have entered into the spiritual arena of nature, more so than ever before, because of these influences on me. And so I'd like to start our conversation by asking, “What has nature done for you guys? What is it doing for you currently? What would you like for it to do for you? And what are ways that we, as contemplatives, can reap the benefits of what this amazing, natural world has to offer us?

Christina Roberts:  2:05  

Well, maybe I'll just start off by acknowledging that I often talk to people who are not part of church or any sort of organized religion. But time and time again, people say, “I feel close to God when I am in nature.” “Or, I feel spirituality when I'm out fishing or hiking or somehow in the wild.” And I'm sure that maybe you've heard that as well. So there seems to be something hardwired in us as human beings to be in touch with the divine as we are immersed somehow in creation. And so, I guess I'm wondering why that is, what our experience is, as well, because, I do think that there's something about The Divine and nature that seems really important and intertwined with each other.

Kristina Kaiser:  2:45  

That's really good. And even as you were bringing out some of those words, I think my awareness of God, if anything, is maybe sparked, by a way of nature, sort of like the amazingness of it. In fact, some of our kids are learning about rain forests. And apparently there's, like, 15 million species in the rain forest, because it's like such a fertile place for things to live and thrive. But that kind of variety and diversity is really inspiring. 

Christina Roberts:  3:17  

I think that's important. And, you know, you naming the diversity and the awareness…it's there. The expansiveness of nature and also the interiority that nature offers us as well. And somehow, as we are reflecting on the natural world around us, I think it brings us into both an expansive space as well as an interior space. And I recently was listening to some of the SDI International Spiritual Directors International Conference. And there was a woman, her name is Pat McCabe. And she said, “You know, I don't come to these conferences as a cultural Show and Tell. That's not compelling enough to me. But if we're talking about creation and sustainability, I think it's important to talk to the Indigenous because the word “indigenous” means people have a place. And so what does it mean that my ancestors have been in this place for centuries…and knowing the land and understanding the way that Mother Earth and her terms expresses culture in these different parts of the globe, through the way that we live and interact with the world around us…”

And I noticed in this conference, many of the speakers, as they began their sessions, they would acknowledge: Thank you for joining today. I am piping in from (wherever they were,) and this is Ho Chunk Land or Navajo Land or The First Nations or whatever the Native American land that they were standing on was. They acknowledged that. And I thought, “Wow! That is beautiful! And that is tying us into those ancestral roots that just brought a whole new…both groundedness and a depth and appreciation to me…as well as, like, wow! We are part of such a larger and grander story with creation than my own little corner of the world.” But many of those introducing themselves would also acknowledge the nearest source of water as well. So, I've really been intrigued by ways in which different cultures and particularly the indigenous are expanding my view of creation in nature.

Chris Roberts:  5:25  

I think nothing inspires me like nature. And I know we’ll probably get into this, but, even early on, as a kid, going out on adventures, being in the West Texas desert, seeing the sunsets and going on adventures, you know, finding the horny toads and the lizards and the locust. And it's such a different landscape that I grew up in than where I'm at now in Wisconsin…or even most of Texas, you know…what is actually out there. But it just called to me.  It spoke to my soul being out in nature. 

And it's always been that way. I can remember, as a kid watching different movies that had fly fishing, like “A River Runs Through It” with Brad Pitt, and several others that I can't think of right now. But there was something about this art of fly fishing, of being out in nature, that spoke to me. And so I think some of the barriers that we as people have to “that speaking” or “that calling,” or “being one with,” or just experiencing God out in nature has to do with the bad things about nature, like the mosquitoes, the bears, the bugs. And I don't know what it says about our society that we don't (or we can't) take the good with the bad or we can't experience a little bit of, you know, mosquitoes biting…to overcome those barriers, to get the great things that creation or nature has to offer us. I don't know what you guys think about that notion.

Kristina Kaiser  7:22  

[Laughing] Well, let me be honest, I moved to the city pretty quickly when I became an adult. And I stayed there for almost two decades, because I am of the city mind, if you will. And apparently there are real practices around things like, “Can you not accept these things that are happening?” And that's it! No, not very well! 

But even so even in that space…Recently, I'll notice, for instance, if I put on a “waves soundtrack” during my prayer times that I can almost feel like a wave, like I can imagine this. And it adjusts my mood and personality. It adjusts the way that I am flowing in the world.

Or…at the same conference we all attended it..(So it's probably going to come up for a while…) There was a guided meditation around being a tree, starting at the roots: Can you feel that sense of groundedness and rooting? And I was like, “Strangely, yes. Even though I'm in my living room, and I am standing on carpet actually. I could imagine those feelings.” And can you grow your branches? And can you lose your branches? And the whole bit, are you, kind of, embodying a little bit of nature? Using the imagination still works, even if you're a city folk like me.

Christina Roberts:  8:54  

It's important to acknowledge that becuase I remember the first time that somebody gave me pushback. It was one of my friends, and she was saying, “I don't feel safe in nature. I didn't grow up in nature.” She's black, and I think there's just the sense where going into the woods does not feel safe to her. That feels awful to her. And yet there was something in her that was compelled by this idea. And as she reflected further, she said, “You know, actually, one of my favorite memories is going to the beach with my husband and daughter, and being in community around other people. It felt safe. It was fun.” And so, somehow, being at the ocean, that piece of nature was meaningful to her whereas other parts of nature felt very unappealing or unsafe to her. 

Also, in that conversation, recognizing that house plants or having flowers in the home, she loved that sort of thing. And so I think even the way in which we describe nature and creation, it can look different based on our life experience and how we want to engage with that. And I think that's important to name in this conversation as well.

Chris Roberts:  9:51  

Yeah, I think there is an aspect of our lives…that we are called to, that there are several stages or several seasons that we go through. And I think there are seasons of “solitude” or seasons of “desert” or seasons of “going into the wilderness” that you see through all kinds of literature. I wonder what nature has to offer us in those seasons. I've found in seasons of dryness that I am actually compelled to go into nature. And maybe that's where you find solitude, maybe that's where you find the things that you need for your spiritual journey to deepen you. 

And so I think that's something that comes up for me. In several cultures, you know, in the Germans, they call it “wanderlust,” you know, the young men go out into the wilderness to see what they're made of. 

That's a compelling reason to go out into nature because there's nothing that can take you down to the level of humanity, like a rain storm or thunderstorm, and being caught out in the open. Nothing can make you feel your volatility or your humanity like what nature can bring. And so I wonder, in our spiritual journeys, how important is nature to the contemplative process and going deep to that inner place? To the discovery of who you really are, how necessary is it, and how are bugs a part of that? 

You know? “I can't control this. This is not peaceful right now. I want it to be peaceful. I want the sunset.” 

A lot of times I make fun…There's a commercial…I think it's actually a Cialis commercial where this older man and woman are in their separate bathtubs by a waterfall and in this gorgeous nature setting. And I'm like, “Yeah, I bet you there's so many bugs in that actual place that their heads are underwater!” But we want the picture without the suffering. But is the suffering necessary to get us to go to that inner place that we need to in our in our spiritual journeys?

Christina Roberts:  12:12  

Yeah. And I wonder if that's, that piece of the interiority. So I think that is something that nature can offer us, is that intensity, Chris, that I hear from you, of, “We're going on to the rugged, to the wild. There's bugs, there's beast, there's all the things.” 

I'm contrasting that with someone that has a bird feeder in their backyard. And in the morning, as they're drinking their coffee in their air conditioning, maybe looking out the window to the birds that are feeding on the bird feeder and somehow reflecting on nature. That that's where they're out of just like recognizing the diversity and the beauty and the expansiveness of creation. 

So I think even what we, both, give and receive from nature…I think even that changes based on where we're at in life. And, you know, I was recently with some people and kind of getting to exposed to some different authors: Judy Cannato, Wendell Berry…talking about, kind of, our relationship with creation. And it's like, you know…we have some walking trails by our house that are wooded. And it's like, you know…I spew to the woods when I am stressed. I release my stress to the trees and to the woods. And, somehow, I can just walk in the woods. And then, when I come out of the woods, I feel more at peace. But I’ll wonder, “Wow, like, I'm kind of dumping?!” 

You know, in a sense, I'm not trashing and littering…but with my emotions…And so I've been aware of that. And now, when I'm going for walks and that happens, sometimes I'll just stop and give thanks for the beauty of the butterfly or the tree or whatever that I'm seeing. I’ll kind of engage that give and take relationship that nature offers us. So I really appreciate what you're highlighting there, Chris.

Kristina Kaiser:  13:44  

And I think even as we're talking, I'm recalling, there's a lot of metaphor for life that is found in those nature-esque spaces. So even if I am just sitting on a rock in the sun…and it's not quite as intense as Chris's description…which I don't think I've ever had that experience, but I'm hoping to be open some day, you know…but the meaningfulness that will suddenly come from an ant passing by or a bee flying by has been profound for me. Whereas in a different setting, I never would have necessarily thought about the answer of the bee and how that relates to my life and what that might be showing me. So yeah, there is something about even just a little bit of exposure to the elements. There's a lot of metaphor.

Chris Roberts:  14:37  

Yeah. And I think something that, you know, in the small ways, right, in whatever ways you're ready for, I'm all about that. 

And hopefully we've spoken to everyone's desire, whether it's the great adventure, the wilderness. Or it's the bird feeder in the backyard. I think something else that compels me is, you know, I recently read a book about love and learning to love the small things. And I think we have these grandiose ideas of loving people and loving communities. But this other challenge, like, you can't do that until you love that leaf of grass, or that tree branch, or that flower. And so it's really challenging people to the practice of loving small things in nature, before you attempt these big grandiose ideas of love. And so that's something that I've been practicing. And it resonates with me, I find that as I'm thankful for the rain drop, as I'm out walking, or I'm thankful for the yellow Lily, or you know, that particular little green leaf of grass, loving the small things, I think, opens me up, in a way, to love bigger. So I really appreciate that. I appreciate that about nature as well.

Christina Roberts:  15:58  

Yeah. And I think one of the things about living in the Midwest, which the three of us do live in the Midwest, we do experience all the seasons. And I was recently on a call with a handful of us from the Midwest and then someone from Florida. And we were kind of checking in: How is everyone and, oh, it's spring and we're, you know…several people were into gardening and getting their gardens ready or just going outside because the weather's warmer. And the person in Florida said, “Oh, you know, I used to live in the Midwest. And hearing you, I actually miss that. Because in Florida, there's not that dramatic changing of the seasons.” And hearing everyone so appreciative of going from the winter clothes into more of that spring-like weather…”

Collectively, we're experiencing this in the Midwest as a community – the joy and the emergence of new life that the spring offers, that our friend in Florida wasn't experiencing. And so I think that there's that kind of personal peace. But also, depending on where we're located geographically, I think that there's a communal aspect as well, that we can experience.

Kristina Kaiser:  16:55  

And I think…

Oh, I love the communal aspect of it. That is, so…I just had to take a moment to just enjoy that…

And even the notion of sunlight, I have sometimes just purposely moved myself if it's sunny. If it's cloudy, I think, “Well, not today.” But if it's sunny, I will move myself purposefully to get into that sunny space. And I talked about joy lists on another podcast. Another aspect of this is, like, fresh cut grass. I used to cut grass when I was a 15-years old, and there's something about it, these little ways in which goodness flows into us by way of nature…

And back to a point we made almost at the beginning, it does seem a little bit universal across faith traditions and people-tolerance levels. And what aspect of nature we’re referencing, but it does seem a little bit universal.

Christina Roberts  17:51  

Yeah, I would agree with that. Right? Some people really like having a cat or a dog in their home. Other people aren't, quote, “animal people,” but they're more flower people or they're more, you know, woodsy-type people. So I think, yeah, all the elements just seem really important. 

Chris Roberts:  18:05  

Well, what a fun conversation that we have had today! Thank you so much. And we look forward to more stories of our adventures in nature.

Chris Roberts:  18:22  

This is the part of our podcast where we talk about what we are into what are we into?

Christina Roberts:  18:30  

Well, in line with we've been talking about, I have been learning more about Pat McCabe and her work and her writings and talks. And I'm just really fascinated by, you know, over the years, I'm sort of, dipping my toes into learning about Native Americans. And that's always been a really fascinating journey. Whenever I've read books as a kid…I grew up in St. Louis. So the Gateway Arch and the Lewis and Clark expeditions. As a kid, we definitely had sprinklings of that, but I'm just really enjoying, kind of, re-entering the world of learning about indigenous people groups again. So that's what I'm into this week.

Kristina Kaiser:  19:03  

Love it. We are in the process of, I don't know…We got caterpillars, and they become butterflies. So we’re in the metamorphosis process, and there's five of them total. Four of them are in their chrysalis. And once that last one gets in, we can then transfer them to this netted cage thing, and then they can transform. But it has been really fun to watch our children stare at these little creatures that change and move quite a lot actually. And it was further intriguing to realize how fast they go into a chrysalis. One of them did it in an afternoon. We saw them at lunch, and then we came back at dinner, and he (or she!) was in their chrysalis. And I was like, “You've got to be kidding me!” And then another afternoon, they got to kind of watch them wiggling and getting down into that. So it has been this really fascinating experience. 

Chris Roberts:  20:00  

Beautiful. Well, I have always been into Coldplay. They're one of my favorite bands, but I have been way into Coldplay recently. They have a new song called “Higher Power.” And I watched an interview with Chris Martin. And I was just amazed at the musical journey. And I thought they couldn't put out a better song than this last album, Everyday Life. In fact, I don't know if anybody has listened to Everyday Life but their very first song called “Sunrise…” what a great experience to be in nature and listen to that song at the same time! What a spiritual moment! But this new song “Higher Power…” and just hearing Chris Martin talk about his just his gratitude, his thankfulness for the gift that he's been given to be able to sing and to be able to do music…It's just been really inspiring. So I've been into Coldplay even more than normal, and I look forward to trying to learn some of their licks from this new song “Higher Power.”

Thank you so much for joining us. For more resources, we ask that you check out TheContemplativeLife.net and we look forward to seeing you next time.