Ep 21 The Sacred Space Inside Today

Today we are talking about the idea of “thin places” – the places where the veil between heaven and Earth lifts. 

Join us as we consider where those places are that feel set apart and separate. Wonder with us as we consider ways to experience Divine Presence in community. And in the end, may we all feel inspired to discover even more ways to experience these special places in our lives. 

#Nature
#Poetry
#Candles
#Hammocks

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Transcript

 SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Thin space, sanctuary, god, nature, sacred space

Dominic Kaiser  00:06

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens.

I'm Christina Roberts.

I'm Chris Roberts.

I'm Kristina Kaiser. We're glad you joined us.

Chris Roberts  00:23

Hello, it's great to be with you today. Today we want to talk about this idea of "thin places." And this is something that arises in the Celtic faith tradition. There's a Celtic saying that heaven and earth are only three feet apart. But in thin places, that distance is even smaller. So a thin place is where the veil that separates heaven and earth is lifted and one is able to receive a glimpse of the glory of God.

A contemporary poet, Sharlande Sledge gives this description, thin places that Celts call this space, both seen and unseen, where the door between the world and the next is cracked open for a moment and the light is not all on the other side, God-shaped space, holy. 

And so I really love this idea, and I can think back to being a kid. One of my favorite things to do as a kid was to set out on these adventures. There was a particular place that I'd always find myself going to. And it was this place that I would connect to God, it was about five blocks from my house, and it was this open area of land in the small rural town in Texas that we lived in. And I had what I would call a "sit spot." And I was always drawn to go to this place and sit. And I found that I had the most amazing experiences as a kid talking to God in this in this space. 

As an adult, I always am looking for thin spaces. I live in a beautiful place that's surrounded by a lot of nature. And I go on walks, and I find that I'm in a thin space in the woods that are near my house. But it's not necessarily dedicated to just nature. 

I'm a part of a cohort that meets at the Franciscan Spirituality Center and La Crosse, and they have a sanctuary where people have been praying in the sanctuary for 140 years. And whenever you walk into the space, it's like, you know, the hair on the back of your neck stands up and it feels like electricity. It's this place where there's this energy that you find that you don't find in what I would call the ordinary places of your life. And so, guys, how have you interacted with thin spaces?

Christina Roberts  03:13

Yeah, I find this topic particularly relevant because, as we're recording, we are still kind of in the pandemic era of our lives. Many of us have had to work from home, school from home, live in our homes. And so all of a sudden, the kitchen table becomes everything. Or I'm having Zoom meetings with professionals and they're in the corner of their bedroom. And so, all of a sudden, the boundary lines have gotten really blurry and everything is kind of clumped into one thing. And so I think more than ever, this idea of having something set apart, separate, sacred is super important in light of the pandemic because everything's kind of been clumped together. 

And I appreciate, Chris, you even naming, "Yes, maybe the thin space is outside in nature." But maybe if you're in a crowded space, sometimes it can be a special chair or a particular area where "this is where I'm going right now. I have a book, I have my headphones on, I have something where, in this little corner of my life, it is something set apart and sacred for me in the midst of everything being clumped together." So I find particularly with a pandemic that this topic is quite relevant. 

Kristina Kaiser  04:24

Can we just stop and talk for a minute about the fact that you, Chris, were a child and going out into a "sit space?" What?! Oh my gosh! 

And actually, it doesn't surprise me because though the listeners cannot see all of this, Chris's room is always the most beautiful room in this space. The candles are lit and he's ready to go. My room...totally functional. I'm just closest to the internet. So that tells you something. I was, at one point, trying to create a beautiful space, but it wasn't close to the internet so function won. 

But I find you're so right, Christina, with this whole COVID thing. I've heard a lot of people say, "I feel like everything is the same." And so, we run a church service on Sundays. We have a room dedicated to that, which I'm actually sitting in right now, though, not the way I would on a Sunday. So when I "go to church," quote, unquote, on Sundays, it does feel different for me. But for somebody else, they might be in their bed or on their couch, or in their, you know, recreation center. So it's very different. 

However, I was sharing with Christina, even just the other day, I've been doing these 15 minutes sits on this one couch in our living room. And then I went and sat on that same couch to do work, and I immediately started with a deep breath, where it was just natural for me to sit there and then begin some sort of a practice, which kind of jolted me into my current moment: Oh my gosh! I have a muscle memory here that this is where I meet God. So it is kind of a big deal to have that place where you can go, I think.

Chris Roberts  06:00

Yeah, and I've really appreciated that the pandemic has really helped us as a family  engage in this idea of thin places. And one of my favorite practices as a family has been, during the early days of the pandemic, we decided to set out once a day for a nature hike. And so we drove, we walked, we went to all these different places in Central Wisconsin, and we would go on these hikes. And it was such a special time for me and such a special time for our family, going to these different spots and walking through nature. 

And so I've really loved the experience of the Divine in a community setting, like going out with others, this transcendent experience that one probably can't find, or maybe they can find. I don't want to be limiting here, but, one that I haven't found in going to a church building or something like that. And so I really, I've really enjoyed this idea of nature. I think there's something to nature being wild and opening you up to the Divine in ways that you can experience. 

And going back to this idea of: You can't find it in your everyday life. For instance, you're probably not poking fun at me, but, you're drawing attention to my candles and, I want to have a great experience while I'm on this podcast. But I think there's also something to: When you set out. When you go on a journey. I think in all kinds of literature, there's this idea of setting aside your life and going into the unknown. And I think, for everyone, that will probably have so much benefit. Whenever you make space in your life to set out and to go into the unknown, there's this meeting place with God that you can't find anywhere else.

Christina Roberts  08:05

And I think also, in addition to that, yes, there's the the beauty of those transcendent moments. Also, I think thin spaces are laughing together and just having those moments of joy. And I would say a thin space is a hammock outside our house. One of our daughter's saved her money and she has this like rainbow striped hammock that is on our tree. And that is the gathering place for her and her neighborhood friends. As we were able to kind of gather outside and do that, pretty much every day, and it's not even a fancy setup. But there's something about that hammock that draws all the children in the neighborhood that are in her little sphere, her bubble. And every single day, they have conversation, they hang out, they might throw a ball or something near that. But there's something about the simplicity of that, too. 

So I think, yes, the striking out and the beautiful transcendence, but also just the simplicity of, somehow, hanging a hammock. Or people that maybe travel a lot, too...when I used to work for a nonprofit and we traveled a lot, one of my friends, whenever she was in a new location, she had a special picture for like. She would take out a picture frame, and she had a special blanket thing, and wherever she was at, that bed, that youth hostel, that hotel became her sacred space because of those things that she brought that made it that sacred space. I think there's something to that as well.

Kristina Kaiser  09:21

Yeah, I feel like we're sort of talking about "awareness" a little bit. How do we become aware of the Divine? And that can look so different, perhaps, depending on personality or what's available to us in the moment. 

And just to say, Chris, I would definitely not make fun of your candles. I think they're amazing. I want to become like you! And I just think that some people are super predisposed. Like we have a four-year old, and I'm always amazed, he will say...so we were trying to order off of a menu one day, and he said, "I would like to eat that beautiful waffle." He's noticing the picture of the waffle, and I thought, "That's remarkable to me that a four-year old is finding this waffle aesthetically pleasing and thinks, 'I should like to eat that.'" 

And it happened again, today. We were driving our other kids to school, and it started to snow. And he's like, "That is really beautiful." And I think, "Who is this child in my backseat who notices beauty like that?!" 

So, you know, I think sometimes they talk about "upstreams" and "downstreams," ways in which it's very easy for us to connect, ways that it's more challenging, but it's worth it for us. So if I think, for me, I love aesthetic, but I have to work for it because I will always choose function. I will choose fast over getting my space set. But it's so meaningful to me when I go that extra mile. And then that awareness piece seems so important.

Christina Roberts  10:47

Yeah. And I was recently listening to someone talk about sanctuary throughout history. And on our last podcast, we kind of talked about the perennial wisdom, which is wisdom found in many different faith traditions throughout the centuries. And this person was noting that in all major religions there's something to be said about this set of apart space, this holy of holies, or a temple or these divine spots in the world. And she was remarking, even in films, like in the medieval times, if someone was being chased, even by legal authorities, they could scream "sanctuary," and go into the church space or the sacred space, and they were safe. And no questions asked, that was a safe space for them. 

And so she was talking about, even on a very basic human level, there's something hardwired in us to need safe spaces, sacred spaces. And again, they can be the beautiful fancy, ornate temples or whatnot. Or it can be the tree in the backyard, the hammock, whatever it is, but there's something hardwired in us to need that. And I wonder, too, again, in light of the pandemic, I think that there definitely, there's the physical spaces. But I think many of us this year have found online sanctuaries in new ways where, you know, maybe before the online space was more functional, right? We have to log on to do our business and work and things like that. But I think that is certainly grown this past year, where there have been beautiful sacred spaces created online that...not that they were non-existent before the pandemic, but I would say much more robust in this recent year. So I think: Gosh, the the vastness of sanctuary throughout history and what we're experiencing now on a deep level is just really noteworthy to me.

Chris Roberts  12:27

Yes. I know a specific podcast that my wife listens to, that I do not tread with with a question when she's listening to that podcast. And, I think, even the idea that a podcast can take you to another place to have this experience is quite extraordinary. So I love all the different ways that we can think of for finding God in our lives. And I really have appreciated all the ways that we've learned to explore over this past year. I think that's, probably been one of my, "what, what is a nugget that you can take out of the pandemic," and it's this idea of: God can be found anywhere. 

But yes, I do love to create environments. I do love to invite God in by this act of preparation. And I think that can make a place or a space holy as well. And it could be tools that we use as well. I think poetry can take me to a thin space where heaven seemed to just be right there for me, connection to the Divine. And so I really appreciated our conversation today. Thank you so much, guys.

This is the part of our podcast, where we talk about what we are into. What are we into today?

Christina Roberts  14:16

I am into boats. So I grew up in St. Louis, and I was not around boats a lot. We had the occasional float trip on the rivers. But my oldest daughter just recently joined crew after school. And so the coach was asking for volunteers, and I literally had to Google. I don't even know what these terms mean. So we might be able to volunteer, but if it's involving a boat, let me just google what that means before I'm committing myself to that! But it's just been really fun, and we're kind of thinking about: Can we do some more kayaking or canoeing or things like that the summer. So I've just kind of been thinking about boats and maybe boats can become a thin space for us in this upcoming summer season. So that's what I'm into this week. 

Kristina Kaiser  14:58

That is remarkable! Have fun with that! I am sure it will happen because you're already thinking about it. Well, the seasons are turning a little bit, and I have found, as they turn, I'm getting more excited about salad-like meals, so not specifically salad, but those lighter types of things. So I went through all my cookbooks the last time I went to the grocery store, and I purposely bought all the ingredients so that now I can just pick and choose. So that is my current excitement.

Christina Roberts  15:28

Yum, I love that.

Chris Roberts  15:31

Well, I have been into the idea, not necessarily the the action of doing, but I've been into the idea of fishing with my kids. Several years ago, I was into fly fishing and I had a buddy who was really into fly fishing, and fly fishing is a lot more active than most types of fishing. And so I have gotten our fly fish gear out, and I have put the line on the reel and I've been practicing some of my knots. And I am so out of practice! Fly Fishing is this whole big endeavor. And so I've been into fly fishing, learning my knots, practicing my cast, and getting ready to take my daughter, who is about to turn 11, and that's what she wants to do for her birthday, is go fishing. So I've been into fly fishing. 

Well, thank you so much for listening. We're so glad that you were able to join us. For more resources, we invite you to check out thecontemplativelife.net, and we look forward to seeing you again soon.