Ep 16 Toxic Positivity

Toxic Positivity is the belief that no matter how difficult the situation, that one should always maintain a positive mindset. 

It’s culturally normal for us to share our positive emotions, but what about the negative ones? Many of us have believed that if we just ignore the emotion, it will pass. But is that really true? 

Join us as we talk through these questions and ideas together. 

#SpiritualCompanioning
#SpirtitualDirection
#PrayerExamen
#JoiedeVivre
#LovingKindness 

Additional Resources:
Book: The Untethered Soulby Michael A. Singer
Book: The Book of Joy by His Holiness The Dalai Lama and Archbishop Desmond Tutu & Douglas Abrams
Website: SDI – Spiritual Directors International

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Transcript

 SUMMARY KEYWORDS

emotions, energy, joy, negative emotions, feeling, positive, contemplative, yin, yang

Dominic Kaiser  00:06

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens. 

I'm Christina Roberts.
I'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser. We're glad you joined us. 

Kristina Kaiser  00:25

Hello, it's great to be with you. Today we are talking about the subject of Toxic Positivity, this belief that, no matter how difficult the situation, that one should always maintain a positive mindset. So for instance, let's say we lose our job, a common response might be to have someone say, "Stay positive," or, "It could be worse," or "Hey, at least you have your health!" And while those things may be true to a point, they don't address the feelings that tend to come with difficult situations, the anxiety, the stress, the fears. And ultimately, what's been found, is that emotions avoided tend to cause more harm than one might expect, which makes sense from a spiritual perspective. 

For instance, in this book, The Untethered Soul by Michael, A. Singer, he mentions: Emotions not released tend to cause us to put up walls and to relive those emotions in ongoing ways throughout our lives, that those emotions store like energy in our bodies; they don't just disappear. 

And it would seem that people like the Archbishop Desmond Tutu, and the Dalai Lama would agree with Singer because in their book, The Book of Joy, we hear something similar, that the path to joy doesn't lead away from suffering and adversity, but through it. And so I was hoping that we could take some time to talk about this kind of stuff today.

Christina Roberts  01:53

Yeah, I appreciate you bringing this up, Kristina, because I agree with you that we tend to, in our culture, or maybe our family of origins, label some emotions as good and some emotions as bad, as opposed to just emotion. And so going back to your example of the lost job, it is a very appropriate emotion to feel discouraged, to feel frustrated, to maybe feel confused by it or, you know, a little bit worried about what's going to be next for you. And I think when we try to avoid those and say, "Well, those are bad emotions. I need to focus on...and even your point, like, okay, yes, you have your health. That has nothing to do with the situation at hand, though. And so let's allow ourselves to name those emotions and to express them. 

And I really appreciate the analogy of our emotions being like a beach ball at the swimming pool. And if we ever tried to submerge the beach ball under the surface and try to get it away from us, it continues to pop back up again, just like you're talking about "emotions are stored in our bodies." And it's not like it's going anywhere. It continues to pop back up again, it becomes annoying at that point. Versus, if you're in the pool and the beach ball is there, eventually, the beach ball will kind of float off to the side of the pool naturally if we just acknowledge, "Yep. There's a beach ball there," and kind of let it do its thing, it can work its way out of the situation. 

Or maybe you want to engage with a beach ball in a particular way. And that's fine, too. So I think it's really important that we are naming this and really addressing this toxic positivity because, again, I think we all enjoy positivity as opposed to negativity, if you will. But I think that we can reach a point where it becomes less than helpful in into toxic environments.

Chris Roberts  03:29

And I think what comes up for me, I grew up in a faith tradition, I wouldn't call an outright prosperity gospel, but we sure flirted with prosperity gospel a lot. There's these expectations that the church, that the people in your community asked that you stay positive. And I emember one Sunday, a guy was in church two days after his wife died. And I asked him sincerely, you know, as a young person, "How are you doing?" And his response was, "I'm blessed and filled with God! Thank You, Jesus!"

Okay. No sadness, no loss with what's happening in your life? And it's like those are emotions you can't talk about at church. And so I really have enjoyed becoming part of faith traditions that allow you to explore those more, what people would label as, difficult emotions. 

And I know that I've done music in church for a number of decades. And, you know, one of the things that I run up against is there are not a lot of songs that that have language for sadness, that have language for loss, that have language...the Presbyterian hymnal is the one that has probably more songs that deal with grief and sadness than any other. And it only has 17% of songs of lament Whereas, you know, I think even other traditions have like 13% is the next highest. And so I think finding language for our emotions, finding language for sadness is huge for our culture because, I feel like, we don't really want to explore those types of things in our day to day lives. 

Kristina Kaiser 05:20

Yeah, I agree. I feel like, if I ever expressed a negative emotion, it was chided. So I actually became very good at expressing positive emotions. This is, in many ways, this is new language to me to do the things we're talking about, to acknowledge if I have a feeling. And I even realized not so long ago, you know, all these scriptures about, "Do not fear, do not fear," they're a little bit different in terms of what they're addressing. If someone is going to move towards their calling, and they're feeling a sense of fear, there's this sense of: Yes, I feel the fear, but I'm moving towards it, which is different from, "This thing happened, and I'm having an emotion about it." And so I even kind of realized recently: These verses don't...I'm not sure that they actually even apply. I don't know what you guys think about stuff like that. 

Christina Roberts  06:10

Yeah, so maybe in other words, if I'm hearing you, Kristina, that sometimes we can feel stuck in our emotions, and maybe the scriptures you're identifying, move us towards whatever it is that we're fearing, towards that thing, as opposed to just feeling stuck, which I think is important to name as well. 

I might add to that, I think, you know, one of the things I've appreciated about the Prayer of Examine, which I think we've shared on this podcast before is: It invites a person to reflect on their day, both the consolations, the ways in which they've experienced God, or goodness, or light or hope, as well as the desolations. Where was there an absence of that? And I think, when I first started that practice, it did feel a little foreign, or like, "Oh, are we supposed to name the desolations?" Like, aren't we just supposed to name the consolations to move us out of and then to really focus on that. But really finding depth, and, a lot of times, recognizing that in a moment in my day, there was both a constellation and a desolation in that same moment that somehow maybe I was feeling a dark darkness, a disappointment, whatever. And in that moment, there was something that happened that also drew me out, like you're talking about, Kristina, towards the next thing, towards the place that I want to land at. 

And so I think that that's really more of a balanced approach, as opposed to, you know, I think some of the self-help books that are out there, although, I think there's some really good nuggets there, I think it does tend to just focus on the consolations, just on the good, just on the gratitude, just on the successes, the wins. And I feel like that can be kind of flat, in all honesty.

Kristina Kaiser  07:41

Yeah. And I have found so...as all of you know, right, I've been playing around with this Joie de Vivre idea. And so all these little things, like "having gratitude" and "feasting one's eyes," and, "oh, if I like the feeling of something on my skin, maybe I should wear that material" or whatever. 

But they will only take you so far in terms of raising your sense of joy. It's fractional. And so the more that I've played around with this idea, the more that I've realized: If you don't deal with the suffering and the difficulty, the actual joy cannot truly come. There's something about this. So I do...I think you're very astute and saying, "Oh, yes, maybe these scriptures were moving us through or towards the fears." I think that's very helpful.

Chris Roberts  08:25

I think in my life, I've appreciated individuals that are positive because I find that I have negative emotions all the time. Or, you know, as Kristina said, there are no positive, there are no negative emotions, they just are. And even labeling negative emotions is probably unhelpful at this point. But emotions that society deems as negative...I think being around positive people, a lot of times, makes me want to, say, "Okay, they're positive..."

Christina Roberts  09:04

Is it that being around positive people, you almost want to be the antithesis of that and balance it out with some like, devil's advocate kind of energy? Is that what you're saying?

Chris Roberts  09:13

Yeah, but I want to put it in a more healthy way. There's a story that comes up for me. I have a co-worker that, every morning, he says, "It's a beautiful day," and he really means it. He's a morning person. If you ask him how he is at four o'clock in the afternoon, he'll say, "I'm tired. I need a nap." You know. There's a lot of sincerity to it, but  he just rubs people the wrong way in the morning. A lot of people are like, "Are you kidding me?! There's like three inches of snow on the ground right now. We're supposed to get six more inches while we go drive our buses and pick up kids. How can you say it's a beautiful day?!" 

And, you know, they just rub up against his positive attitude, and it forces these issues to come up in their life. You know, I think I, being around overly positive people find myself wanting to play the devil's advocate at times. Like, really? Tell me more! Everything's going great in your life? There are no negative emotions that are happening in you? It's only good? You're only climbing, you're only ascending? There's no dissent? There's no going down? 

I don't know whether that's helpful or not. I don't know whether that's being a good friend or not. But there's just something in me that chafes when other people are overly positive. And I really want to question them, and say, "You know, what about this experience that happened in your life? How are you dealing with that?" If only I were as good at grilling myself about my negative emotions as I am about grilling my friends! But that's why we have community and that's why we have friends. So...

Kristina Kaiser  10:59

For sure, because again, this is ingrained. So I will always start with all the good things. And I occasionally, I have one friend who will say, "So nothing? Like, it's all positive?" And I was like, "Well, no! There's, there's this and there's that, but I just wasn't talking about those things." So actually, that prompting is good for a person like me because it brings me to a more authentic place, which I probably was hiding. But not intentionally. It just didn't seem like the type of thing to bring up, to burden people with, or "that's what I'm dealing with by myself" type thing. Go ahead, ask the question.

Chris Roberts  11:39

Yeah, that's not a Facebook post, you know. That's not the beautifully presented aspect of your life that you want to display. So even our social constructs are thumbs down on any sadness, or anything that would cause anybody else to be sad or anybody else to be empathetic, emotions that are good for us as human beings - compassion to have for one another.

Christina Roberts  12:05

I've been helped by doing yoga. And there's different types of yoga, there's Yin Yoga, which is more restorative, you're holding the poses longer, it's a deeper stretch. And then the Flow classes, which, I guess, traditionally would be more of the Yang energy, you know, high energy, movement, warrior poses, strength, that sort of thing. And I think even thinking about, you know, toxic positivity, negativity, kind of these dichotomies...That we have in our language and in the way that we address emotions, versus these energies...and how more of the subdued, the inward, the deeper kind of things...and the, the sunny, the outward, the energetic, the powerful...

And even in those Eastern little symbols, whenever there's the Yin and the Yang symbol, there's always a dot in each. So maybe there's a primary...you're primary disposition is one towards the more Yang energy. But there's always a dot of, the Yin and vice versa. 

And I like to think maybe in terms of that, as opposed to the positive, negative. But I think that there's invitation towards: Yes, in general, I may have this sort of a disposition in life. And also, it's important to always have that little speck of the grounding of the other energy to keep us balanced. And I think sometimes too, it flips where maybe in certain aspects of our lives or scenarios, we tend to be living in that other type of a  Yang or Yin space as well. So I have found that yoga language or the Yin/Yang to be a little bit helpful as well, and thinking about this.

Kristina Kaiser  13:32

Yeah, I also...right, because this was so foreign. I've needed people to walk me through a little bit: Okay, how am I going to process a negative emotion? What is it? 

So when I would read these words about, "And let the emotion pass through you?" I was like, "Do what now?!" How does one have an emotion pass through their body, which seems like a you know, solid structure? 

But having experienced it a few times, it's a bit magical. I don't know how it happens. But there was a day when I was feeling all riled up about a conversation that I was having. And normally, I would have gone to really talking that out for a long time with somebody who would be gracious enough to sit there with me through it. But instead, I did this deep breathing "may you be well" experience over the course of, like, seven minutes. And somehow, I didn't have any more emotion about it. It had truly passed through me. 

But if I'm just walking through my life, and I say, "Just let an emotion pass through," I think I would still feel like...it's almost like the TV. I technically know the picture comes through a cable or something. I don't really understand it. So the emotion passed through, but I don't know how it happened. Just that it did.

Christina Roberts  14:52

I think that's a really good point that you bring up because what does that mean? And I think there are different ways for that to happen. So sometimes it is just this the stillness and that breath. Sometimes it is talking to someone. If you tend to be more of a person that bottles things up and keep things private...You know, I'm navigating this now with one of my children, where, we're really encouraging her to, even if you have to write a letter, and I can read that letter...And she started with that and now is growing to be able to have more verbal communication about what's going on inside...And giving permission that: It's okay, if you don't have all the right words, or it feels a little messy. Just try your best, and it engages in conversation, and it can help to get that out. 

Or, maybe, I was talking to someone the other day, and when they're feeling emotion, they clean the kitchen. That is the way in which they release the frustration. And the tension is just going crazy at cleaning the kitchen and getting that energy out through the body that way and having some order in their life that helps bring a sense of groundedness. And then sometimes from there, then there's opportunity to maybe sit in that stillness because I've gotten that Yang energy out, if you will, and the Yin energy can come in.

Kristina Kaiser  15:32

I will also say, I think, last week was the Spiritual Direction session that everybody got to experience between me and Chris. And that kind of an experience is a different sort of stillness, right, where someone is asking a repetitive question, which then allows me to stop for a moment, really find, first of all, what was I really feeling? And then, what is some truth behind it? 

So sometimes we have this question of: What is the truth? And what is the story I'm telling myself? And different people call this differently, like: Necessary suffering, unnecessary suffering. But there tends to be a lot of this "the story I'm telling myself versus the story that is," so that moment for me to get still through someone else's really good questions can be very helpful. 

Well, thank you guys so much for talking about this. I feel like this is helpful. And I think it will continue to be helpful, even though we've already talked about some of these things in the past, there's always this little extra opening. So thank you.

Now is the time in our podcast where we take a moment to chat about things that we're into today. So tell me friends, what are you into?

Chris Roberts  17:19

Well, I am into spring cleaning. I felt really horrible last week, a couple of sleepless nights, a lot of pain, stuck on the couch. And so I feel like I have a lot of energy. And so this week, I've cleaned out our garage, doing lots of sweeping. I even threw in some laundry this morning, and I detail-cleaned the bathroom. (I had a daughter that woke up in the middle of the night with a bloody nose, and she was so out of it and so tired. I woke up this morning I'm like, "What happened?!" Did somebody die in our bathroom? And no, she just woke up because she didn't sleep with her humidifier on, and she got a bloody nose in the night...) So I got to clean out cracks and corners and I had a lot of joy doing it. And normally joy while deep-cleaning is not something that I experience. So yay for spring and cleaning.

Christina Roberts  18:24

Great. Well, I am into the SDI companions.org website and this is just a wonderful resource…Spiritual Directors International is the what the “SDI: stands for…and so I’ve been engaging in some ongoing education with some of their webinars and resources and it is just nourishing my soul in some beautiful ways. So that is what I am into this week.

Kristina Kaiser  18:46

Woohoo! I think, similar to Chris's, the weather's just been amazing. So I have been into opening every window in the house and letting that breeze come in. It has been wonderful. So that is me. 

Well, I want to thank everybody for joining us today. If you are looking for more resources, please feel free to check out thecontemplativelife.net. And till then, have a great week, everybody!