Ep 12 Beyond Body Shame

Today we’re talking about how the Contemplative can helps us respond to the signals coming from our bodies without all the shame. Most of us know the feeling all too well – that comment that so embarrassed us, expectations that we hold of ourselves, pressures we feel in society... The Contemplative helps us engage motivation that comes from a far more positive space, one where both God and our bodies (gently) show us the way.  

Join us as we talk about some of the many ways we’ve experienced this struggle in our own lives and how Contemplative questions are teaching us and helping us begin to move beyond shame.

Additional Resources:

Book: An Altar in the World by Barbara Brown Taylor
Book: Sacred Rhythms by Ruth Haley Barton
Book: The Problem of Pain by C.S. Lewis 

#Intention
#ContemplativeSpirituality
#Mindfulness                                                         
#Savoring
#Acceptance
#Invitation

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Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

contemplative, invitation, body, shame, accept, listen, permission

Dominic Kaiser: 00:00

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative life. 

I'm Christina Roberts. 
I'm Chris Roberts. 
I'm Kristina Kaiser. We're glad you joined us.

Chris: 00:23

Hello, it's great to be with you. Today we'll be talking about body shame...bom bom bommm...

Last week, we interviewed Mary Reynolds about Embodied Spirituality, and I found myself thinking about our conversation over and over again. And I've been thinking about how the contemplative has helped me with my body shame. 

When I was 13 years old, I had an experience where I knocked out my front tooth, my nerve was hanging out, and I had to have a root canal. That was quite the ordeal in itself. But I found out through that process that I don't like dentists. Number one, I don't like dentists because I'm sort of immune to most of the numbing medication - novocaine, lidocaine. It doesn't really work on my body. And so I've had this fear of the dentist. But emergencies happen. Sometimes you have to go to the dentist just because it's an emergency. And I've gone to the dentist other times in my life besides that root canal. I do go to the dentist.

I remember another experience when I went to the dentist and the hygienist said, "When's the last time you had your teeth cleaned?!" And I said, "Well, I've been a missionary for a number of years, and I've had most of my dentist work done overseas. I think that I last had my teeth cleaned..." You know, and I was stumbling over myself trying to think of whenever the last time I had my teeth cleaned. I felt so much shame sitting in that chair that, that hygienist, she probably was so disgusted with my mouth. She just couldn't help saying these very damaging things to me. 

Two years ago, my children said, "Dad, you tell us to face your fears. But you don't go to the dentist." And so that just led me to think about: Okay, I do want my children to face their fears. I want them to overcome sort of these obstacles in their way. That comment for my children led me to seek out a dentist and sort of take care of my mouth. 

What arose for me, in my contemplative process of thinking about shame: I need to take care of my body for the right reasons. I don't need to take care of my body because I've been shamed into taking care of my body. I want to take care of my body, because my body is speaking to me. My mouth is speaking to me. My back is speaking to me. It's telling me, "You need to take care of yourself." 

And so I really have appreciated the contemplative journey that I've been on because it helps me to be motivated for the right reasons to do care for my body and to do care for my soul. What comes up for you guys, as you think about body shame?

Christina: 03:19

Yeah, I appreciate that nuance of "why we're doing the things that we're doing," I think is super important. And one thing that comes to my mind is a quote from Barbara Brown Taylor. And she talks about that the body is our prophet. And I remember the first time hearing that and was so struck by that image of: What does it mean to really listen deeply to our bodies? And not just like, "Oh, I have a headache," going on my merry way. But, "What does it mean to actually be in a spiritual rhythm of listening and paying attention to the day to day communications of my body," which I think, prior to that, I would just kind of go along my merry way. And if something, again, was painful, or inconveniencing me, then sure, I might pause briefly to figure it out. But to fix it, not to necessarily go deeper with it. 

And maybe a second author, Ruth Haley Barton, talks about listening to our limitations. And I think both of those invitations of: What are the limitations of our body? And rather than wanting to push the push through them, ignore them, push them away, recognizing: No, this is actually a gift. My body's inviting me to something deeper and more meaningful, and how can I stop and listen and reflect, to get to those deeper places? So I really appreciate what you're saying, Chris. 

Kristina: 04:32

I do too. And I think it's also worth just confessing, even as we talk about it: Man, I don't feel like I've got this down. I feel like I am in the process of figuring it out and journeying and trying things. I know for sure I have tried forcing my body to do what I want it to do. I know that I have pushed myself physically and emotionally and towards exhaustion. And it didn't work. I think that was the thing that really upset me the most about it was that I could be as disciplined as I wanted to be. And I couldn't achieve the perfection I was chasing, which was so frustrating. 

And then these other parts that I seem to fall behind on just naturally, like, the doctor is a great example! I have many times felt like: Please believe that I am a good person, in spite of the fact that I don't do these things the way you would do them. And I am happy to lie about it, which my children have also been like, "Mom, you tell us not to lie. And then you tell us to lie to the dentist?" And I'm like, "Yep, but that one's okay." So these things are very challenging. 

But, Christina, I like what you're saying, about listening to your body. And trying to figure out what the body is saying. And so I've had glimpses into this experience, right? Do I feel hungry still? Or do I like the taste of this thing and I would eat it until I'm sick? And I think, naturally, I would eat it till I'm sick. But the reality is, if I'm being mindful, I can really enjoy it. And I've seen clips of this kind of eating with intention. And I think this notion of doing anything with intention is still something I'm working on. But can I sit down, not with my phone, right? Not scrolling, not watching a show where I'm just doing both activities. But to really savor what's happening in front of me. And that actually works. It's a surprise that it works! But I do enjoy it. And I do have a fulfilling experience that way. So I don't know how much it's fixing the shame aspect of it. But it is a journey. I'm working on it.

Christina: 06:53

Yeah, and I think for me, maybe not so much with doctors, but I think around sleep, that has been an area where I have really been, for many years, learning to listen to my body as it relates to sleep. And I will have different periods in my life where maybe I'll wake up in the middle of the night, or I have a hard time falling asleep. And I think that can feel an embarrassing, maybe, or like, I don't know, I should be this Zen-full person, and just when my head hits the pillow, fall asleep or something like that. 

But I think in those seasons, where maybe I'm waking up in the middle of the night, I think it is invitation to pay attention to what is going on within me? And do I have practices during the day where I'm releasing whatever those stresses are so that when it is time to sleep, I can sleep solid; I can fall asleep well. That can be a restorative process for me. 

And so I think, different times when that would happen, before I understood about the contemplative invitation, again, I would feel embarrassed, or I wouldn't want to admit to Chris, "Oh, yeah, I was up at three in the morning. Because it's like, "Why are you up at three in the morning?! Are you stressed or something like that?" 

But just leaning into these contemplative ideas? And it's like, "Okay, here I am. I don't know why I'm up. But I'm up. And so what's the invitation, God?" And quite honestly, sometimes it was maybe a recognition of like: You know, what, I think, maybe, putting in an evening walk might be helpful, or something like that. But there were other times where I genuinely felt like; You know what, I think I'm up, actually, because I want to have some quiet reflective space, and I don't get it in the season...you know, maybe my kids were younger, or things like that. And it was just always constant. And I would have this beautiful, journaling, reflective time for maybe 45 minutes. And then I'd fall back asleep again, and sleep until the morning. And I just leaned into that and took that as invitation of solitude and quiet, not necessarily that I would have chosen that. But clearly, there was something in me that needed to be worked out. 

And so I think, again, moving away from embarrassment, or having to press through or hide these things, versus: The contemplative invites us to lean into "what's being spoken to me here through this disruption? And how can I experience God?"

Chris: 08:50

Yeah, I appreciate that. You know, I think one of the areas that I've also felt shame around was whenever my body is sick. Often, I get sick, you know, like, once or twice a year, I get congestion. My body is saying, "Hey, you're rundown.!" And I think that's happened to me over years. And what I initially try to do is just plow through. I think, again, I've picked up some things that I've seen through my family - you know, when you're sick, you just sort of plow through and you hope for the best.

And recently, I've started noticing when I get sick, it's like: Why do I Why do I feel shame about being sick? Why do I feel bad? 

And so I'm looking at: Well, have you been taking care of your body? Have you been eating the right stuff? Have you been drinking enough water? Have you been doing things that that make your body healthy? And obviously the answer is no. And so I feel shame about that. I feel shame that I'm sick, that I've run my body down. 

And so I really appreciate that the contemplative has helped me to say: Okay, you have been not making wise choices. And not to feel shame about that, right? Like, these are bad choices. Not that I am bad, right? That's what shame is, is: I'm bad. Not that you've made bad decisions. 

And so the contemplative has really helped me distinguish between: I'm not bad, I've just made some poor choices. And this is an opportunity to course correct. And this is also an invitation to rest, to rest my body, to help it restart, restore, reset. And then, I get another opportunity to try again, to be good to my body, to try eating healthier, to try getting more exercise, to try getting eight hours of sleep a night. 

So that's what I really appreciate about the contemplative journey, as it relates to shame in our bodies.

Christina: 11:11

Yeah, I think one more thing maybe to add to that is: When I was first learning about solitude retreats, this was probably maybe 12 years ago, or something like that. And the person who was talking about this said, "You know, oftentimes when people go away for a retreat, the first thing that they do is they take a nap. They just fall asleep. And you think, "Oh, I'm gonna come and pray and do all these things." And he said, "You know what, I have just learned that, that is not just me. Most people when they go and go away for quiet, that's what they do, because their body needs that." 

And so he was just giving us permission to expect that and to do that. And so sure enough, I went on these retreats, and it's like, "Yeah, like that just felt really good to me." I would eat, settle in, and then take a nap. And it was so restorative. And I was thankful that he shared that because it was such a gentle invitation that I think contemplative, often, I think gives us those gentle invitations versus that shaming voice of culture that we're naming today.

Kristina: 12:00

I think another word that's rolling around in my head as we talk is this notion of "acceptance." And I just realized that I'm horrible at accepting pretty much anything. Like, I have a plan. I want it to go a certain way. Every day, my whole life, the whole thing. 

And I was an opera singer before I was a pastor. And so if you got sick, you were going to feel the effects of being sick for like a month after the fact. And if you got sick during finals week, and you couldn't sing your final, that's a fail. There's no grace, for what happens there. So for years, even after I had, kind of, walked away from a professional life like that, if I got sick, I would cry. That was my first, well, first it was denial. "I'm not going to be sick, I'm going to push through," like Chris is saying. And then if I couldn't deny it anymore, then I would cry because this is the end of the world. And that's kind of true for so much of life. 

So, so much of my last several years is being like, "Can you just accept that...so like, Christina, you're talking about, 'Oh, I woke up in the middle of the night.'" That would be just, "Oh, great! Now I'm going to be tired all day. And I'm gonna have this groggy feeling, and I'm not going to be at my best." I can't accept anything, right? 

So what you're saying about: Can I just accept that I'm up and have a good time being up, having a reflective time? I'm sick. Can I accept that it's time to take a nap and enjoy, a little bit, that I can take that nap? And there's a little bit of: Where are we going to get permission from? But this notion of learning how to accept it, it feels like a big part of my journey.

Christina: 13:44

Yeah, and I think that the permission does come. I mean, I think the Spirit is generous with permission. And not even permission. It is invitation. It's not just a permission. It's like: Please come. Draw away. 

And again, maybe we can put this in the show notes, but that Ruth Haley Barton book where she reflects on the story of Elijah and when he was in a very stressful situation and was fleeing, he went away from the city. And the first thing that he did - he took a nap. And then the scriptures talk about the angels baking bread for him. And then he took a second nap. And just this invitation of: There's a lot going on, come away and rest. Jesus says, "Come to me and I will give you rest." "The Lord is my shepherd, I want you to lay down on the green pastures." Over and over again there's just multiple invitations towards that. I just think that we have to pay attention and tune in to those things.

Chris: 14:31

That makes me think of the famous CS Lewis quote: In times of crisis, God shouts. But in times of normality, God whispers. Just that tuning into...and I would like the normality of my life to be one of responding to these invitations that my body gives me. These whispers, these small nudges. But you're right. This fine tuning into stuff, it's not something we're really all that good at, you know. I find myself growing in that, but I like to be slammed, like for the megaphone to trumpet, what I need to do next. 

And so I really I really appreciate this conversation. And I look forward to ways that I can respond personally to these nudges, these small invitations of the Spirit. So thank you, guys, for this conversation.

This is the time of our podcast where we talk about what we've been into. What are we into guys?

Christina: 15:48

Well, I am into whole grain bacon cheddar biscuits. So our family we like baked goods. I think I've probably talked about it multiple times on the podcast. But there's an Amish community, that, we have gone to their bakery, and they have these scones that are, sort, of these bacon cheddar scones that my kids love. So anyway, we recently went it was spring break to the Amish bakery and got some and I'm like, "You know what? We can recreate this probably even better." And one of my daughters loves to bake and cook. And so she did a trial recipe. We like to try things. And then, "Ohh! Maybe next time, we can add a little bit of this a little bit of that. "She made another batch on Saturday all on her own, and they were incredible. I am in love with these whole grain...And you know what? I said, "The Amish bakery is out. Your cheddar bacon biscuits are even better than that." So if only we had a Yelp review for my daughter's invention, but that is what I have been to this week.

Kristina: 16:46

I am so looking forward to the day when I say that my children do the baking in my house. That's gonna be the best day ever. So we are working on getting a garden started. So I am into watching the seeds pop up right now. And they said it would be 7 to 14 days. And it's been like 4, and we're starting to see seedlings pop up and little leaves, which I always find to be a complete miracle. So that is what I'm into right now.

Chris: 17:16

Nice. Well, I've been into spring break. Our children were on spring break last week, and we had lots of kid time. But this week, our neighbors, they go to a different school and they are on spring break. And so our children are doing school throughout the day. It's virtual this week. And as soon as school is over, they're not: What's for after school snack? I'm hungry." No, they're out the door. And they are gone until the sun sets. They don't think about eating. So I have really been into not having to feed my kids every five minutes because of spring break. I've actually had some wonderful times of sitting and reading and relaxing. So I just wish spring break, you know, like, my kids had friends that had different spring breaks sprinkled throughout the school year so they could go play and, of course the weather is nice. They've been able to be outside. But I have loved Spring Break! The disappearance of children after school is amazing. 

Well, that's all for now. Thanks for joining us. If you want more resources, you can check out thecontemplativelife.net and find out all the offerings that we have there. It was so good to be with you. We'll see you next time. Have a great week.