Ep 11 Embodied Spirituality

Today we are talking with Mary Reynolds, certified Spiritual Companion and Yoga Instructor in the Boston area.

• What are some of the similarities and differences between Mindfulness and Contemplative Spirituality? 
•  Why do we sometimes shy away from Spirituality that includes our bodies? 
• Does body shame have an effect on our spiritual experience? And if so, can we do anything about that?

Join us as Mary shares with us her words of wisdom and experience.  

Additional Resources:

Book: Meditation for Fidgety Skeptics by Dan Harris
Book: The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Website: Internal Family Systems
Website: Mary Reynolds: Injoyoga.com
YouTube Channel: Mary Reynolds, Dance of Stillness
Instagram: Mary Reynolds: Injoyoga_Wellness
Restaurant: Ancora Café, Madison, WI 

#Mindfulness
#ContemplativeSpirituality
#Meditation
#Movement
#Yoga

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Transcript

Ep 11 Embodied Spirituality

Dominic Kaiser: [00:00:06] Welcome to the contemplative life, three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens.

…I'm Christina Roberts.

…I'm Chris Roberts. 

…I'm Kristina Kaiser. We're glad you joined us. 

Kristina Kaiser: 

Hello, everyone, it's good to be with you today! Today, we are talking about Embodied Spirituality, and our guest is joining us for this conversation all the way from Boston. This is Mary Reynolds. She is a certified Spiritual Companion and Yoga Instructor. 

So, hello, welcome to the podcast. So maybe we'll just jump right in and start chatting about things. So often we hear people talk about mindfulness with yoga. How would you distinguish between this mindfulness and contemplative spirituality?

Mary Reynolds: [00:01:02] 

So, I think, first of all, they're not always separate. So I might be practicing mindfulness and it would look exactly the same as if I were practicing contemplative spirituality, especially in my case, because I consider myself a really spiritual person. So whether I'm, you know, washing the dishes, brushing my teeth or literally sitting in bed praying, I'm trying to connect with the spirit of God and bring that in. So that's probably not exactly the answer that you want. 

But that's when they're not distinguished. The way I would separate them is that I would say you don't have to be spiritual or identify as a spiritual person to practice mindfulness. So that would be a key difference. Mindfulness is accessible and ready for anyone anytime. If you are breathing and alive, you have a heartbeat. You can practice mindfulness.

Kristina Kaiser: [00:02:07] 

That makes a lot of sense because I've been reading this “Meditation For Fidgety Skeptics.” (I'm almost all the way through it. So pretty soon I can start talking about a new book that I'm reading.) But they talk about this – the notion of: Mindfulness is for anybody. But this is a secular book and then there's contemplative spirituality, which, it sounds like, you have a lot of experience with that, too.

Mary Reynolds: [00:02:27] 

Yes, it's funny. Yes, I do. If I told you, like, my practices, you'd say, oh, that's contemplative spirituality. But I've never really used that phrase to talk about what I do.

Kristina Kaiser [00:02:38] 

What words do you use? Because I'm going to soak it all up from you.

Mary Reynolds: [00:02:42] 

I mean, I very much experience life through my body. When I am not active and moving for an extended period of time…For me, I move a lot and I bring Jesus into that. So I way back when I was teaching yoga, or leading yoga, in a church setting, they were like, “You cannot call that yoga.” And I was like, “Cool,! Let's call it Jesus yoga.” And they were like, “No, there's still yoga.” And I was like, “OK, how about spiritual movement?” So spiritual movement is something I've often called what I do. But really, I'm just intentionally moving my body and connecting with my thoughts and my breath. 

Kristina Kaiser: [00:03:36] 

As are so many of us, actually.

Chris Roberts: [00:03:41] 

So I have two questions for you, Mary. The first one has to do with something that you said earlier, and that's: People that don't consider themselves spiritual can do mindfulness or yoga. But I would contend that we're all spiritual, whether we think we are or not. And how do you see that evolving during the practice?

Mary Reynolds: [00:04:05] 

I think this is where it's interesting because my context, I'm in the Boston area, right? I'm in New England. And I've been here a couple of decades. I was born in Ohio, which is a very different climate, both in terms of weather and spirituality-wise. So my wording is very mindful of where I am speaking, the people I'm speaking with. So I agree with you, Chris. I think all humans are spiritual. Some of us are more in tune with that. Of course, life happens to us. We have experiences that can make our connection to our self and our spirit become wounded. So it's not always by choice that someone does not identify as spiritual consciously. So I agree with you. I think we all have a spirit. It's in us, I think the spirit of God. But there is a spirit greater than our own in each one of us. Like I like to think of it as a little fire. We have this fire in us. That's our spirit.

And we want to keep it going and  fan that flame, not too much, but we don't want it to die out either. And so I think yoga and mindfulness, contemplative spirituality…that tends to attract a certain type of people and detract certain types of people. So just by virtue of someone choosing to explore mindfulness or contemplative spirituality, I'm going to guess that their heart is already open to the idea of “I am spiritual.” Or at least, “I have the potential. There is there's something greater than me out there.” I think there's already an openness for those who choose to experiment with this, what we're talking about. 

And then I think with that, it doesn't matter how big that openness is. I think if you just have a little bit as you practice mindfulness, as you practice contemplative spirituality, you fan that flame and it grows. And I think over time and practice…experience, you awaken to the fullness, or closer to the fullness, of your spiritual self.

Chris Roberts: [00:06:45] 

That's great. And which, I think, leads right into my second question: Why do you think that we tend to shy away from embodied spirituality as individuals? What would be some things that would detour from that?

Mary Reynolds: [00:07:01] I recently have been reading “The Body Keep Score,” which is about how we store trauma in our body. And just some of my other reading: Internal Family Systems is something I've been reading about and so I'm going to answer your question with the lens of what I'm really getting into right now and reading and learning. So I think a big reason is possibly trauma, little t trauma, big T trauma, all of that gets stored in our bodies. And so it can actually not feel safe to sit in stillness with your body and your breath. That can actually, for some people, elicit like a fight or flight or freeze. And so, of course, they feel for the people that, that is true, I don't think that they would naturally go in this direction. Perhaps a friend or a therapist might recommend it. And then it needs to be you need to proceed very carefully. It needs to be really safe, like first and foremost. If I'm working with someone and I don't know their past, we start very slow with even body mind connection, like the mindfulness practice. For example, if you're going to sit and just focus on your breath or part of your body, that's like 30 seconds maybe. And it's only after there's been a really safe container set. And I think, also, people are really busy. That's like that's what people say. I'm too busy. So those are two reasons.

Christina Roberts: [00:08:46] 

I so appreciate what you're saying and sort of recognizing. It's interesting because that book has come up several with several people that I'm Companioning. And so that's a theme that I'm dealing with, with companioning with others. And also, some of the people that come from, maybe, an evangelical culture that have been taught to be disembodied and a lot of shame around body, etc... So I'm curious if you also have encountered some of those spaces in your companioning and how you've been able to gently invite people into that awareness and the beauty of body?

Mary Reynolds: [00:09:23] 

I haven't actually had any people for whom I'm companioning that fall into that category. Again, I'm in the Northeast. Not a ton of evangelicals here. I have had just friends who I'm companioning as a friend. They do fall into that camp. You know, my spiritual director says “the pace of grace,” you move at the pace of grace. And I love that. I think, depending on the person sitting in front of me, they set the pace. It's very slow. And it might even begin with talking about what that might look like to sit still, not actually doing the practice of…and I keep saying sitting and breathing…but it can be many more like sitting and just moving your arms up and down. That really accessible movement, going really slowly, starting off with parts of the body that are easier to connect with, whether there's trauma in the background, or like you're saying, like a shame, the shame, but just sort of like, well, your fingers, goodness, can you imagine if you didn't have your fingers? So let's like let's look at our fingers, our nails. You know, they do a lot cooking or just like petting a dog or going to we just we use our hands. So starting with something that is kind of on a limb: Toes. Feet are also great because for those who are able to walk on their feet, what a gift.

So just connecting with parts of your body that there's less shame and then you can slowly move to other parts or bigger movements or even just practicing thinking about keeping it in the in the mind and thinking about what it would look like to take bigger movements or love a part of your body that you haven't been able to that's been holding shame. And something I really enjoy doing a lot is just taking your hand, picking a part of your body, one that comes to mind that you're maybe critical of and just placing your hand on that with a nonjudgmental. (And some of these words are so silly. “Nonjudgmental…Let's observe non judgmentally.”) But really, taking your own hand and placing it on your belly, your bum. What's the place that you've been hard on? Your hips? Just put a hand there and feel it. It's beautiful, it's exactly as it was created to be. And that physical touch of your own hand, so it's safe, to reconnect with that part. And if it feels OK, even saying to that part, “Thank you. Thank you that you that you work, that you help me walk, or that you hold food that nourishes my body.”

Christina Roberts: [00:12:25] 

I love that! I love the language and also just the accessible way in which you invite us to to notice and to name and to celebrate or to just even acknowledge, like not even… maybe I'm not there celebrating. But I could acknowledge “I have hips and knees, hips that have had a baby, or, you know, I have a womb, or whatever it is.” And just to be able to be in that space!

Before our recording here today, I had my spiritual direction session. I meet with a Catholic nun over Zoom. She lives in Iowa. And sometimes when I'm riled up in the session, she'll end with, “Let's get up and do some movement,” and inviting me to do some different stretches. And she's an older, gray haired nun and I love it. But just really paying attention to, “Let's open up that chakra. And what are you noticing as you were vulnerable today in your speech? How can your body mirror that? So I love, Mary, just hearing your accessibility with language and how the body mirrors where we're at, that “grace of pace” is beautiful.

Kristina Kaiser: [00:13:23] 

So I know that there's all sorts of resources that you put out for people, and we’d love for people to be able to connect with those resources. Are there places where people can find you, Mary?

Mary Reynolds: [00:13:32] 

Yes. So I have a website: https://www.injoyoga.com, and through there you can access the YouTube channel that I have. Currently, and I've never done this before, but I'm doing for the duration of Lent, each day during the week, Monday through Friday. Weekends are off. Just offering a movement. It's called “The Dance of Stillness.” Everyday, it's important that we move. But it's also important to be still. And that interplay of movement and stillness. So each day there's some sort of movement/stillness offering on YouTube. And I'm on Instagram. I'm playing around with that. That's also new. And those offerings are on Instagram as well.

Kristina Kaiser: [00:14:24] 

And they'll stay there, right, even after the Lenten season? So if someone comes to this at a later date and thinks, “I want a dance of stillness,” you can still go, right, and find the materials?

Mary Reynolds: [00:14:35] 

Absolutely. Absolutely. And one thing I will say, I really do believe that moving our body helps us to move through, move emotions through, to, I mean, it's good for your nervous system. It's just good. And everybody can move, Even if it's just your head or your jaw, your mouth, there's some part of your body that you can move. So whenever I do videos, I always try to make them ten minutes or less because people are busy. And if you want to, everyone can spare ten minutes or less somewhere in their day. And I also try to make it, like, I don't change my clothes. I don't have a yoga mat…I did a recording this morning in the kitchen! You don't have to change. Like, just right now. “I need to move. Let me move right now.” So I really try to make them accessible to all.

Kristina Kaiser: [00:15:31] 

I love it. Oh, my gosh, that's perfect.

Chris Roberts: [00:15:34] 

Something that has sort of stirred for me as we've been talking about this connectedness to our body. I think as we become connected to our body, we become connected to all things. So I'm finding as I'm for paying attention to my body, I am also aware of my surroundings and my environment in a new way, which I think enlivens my spirituality as well. So if I'm taking a walk in the woods and I see this tree and, like you were saying, I become thankful for the tree, and I have this connectedness to nature that I didn't have before, you see that often in your practice?

Mary Reynolds: [00:16:16] 

Absolutely. So I live in the city, but there's a little park nearby, and I walk every morning out in it. And I try to…when we walk, we often look down. So I really intentionally try to look up at the sky. And, if you notice, when you look down, it's such a narrow view. But when you take your gaze up, it's vast! Just like our spirituality, just like our world. And I often find kind of related to what you're saying is, when I look up at the sky…and this morning! The clouds were magnificent! I don't know my cloud types, but it was like, it just looked like a cartoon. It was really beautiful. And I thought, “Has this formation ever been? And who are the other people around the world looking up at the same sky?” And so there is this connectedness with nature, with other human beings, the diversity of us, of animals. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Christina Roberts: [00:17:25] 

And again, just love how accessible that is, that just merely changing our gaze, the position of our neck, how that opens up a whole world to us.

Chris Roberts: [00:17:32] 

I found my way into stretching and stuff. Pain has really brought me to stretching because I've had a couple of different times in my life where my back went out. The first time the chiropractor did like one pop and I'm like, “I have been experiencing three days of horrific pain, and it just takes one pop and I'm good, to get my body in alignment?!”. And the second and third time that I had that pain, it's like, “You know, I probably really ought to strengthen my core and probably do some stretches.” And I'm still really bad at it. But I have an awareness, a growing awareness that if I do that more my body, my body will appreciate it.

Mary Reynolds: [00:18:19] 

And I love how you are that first of all, don't downplay the awareness. So many people don't even have the awareness. So that's the first step. And you got that. And then you're just building. I mean, I would say the same. People have always said, “Oh, you must do yoga every day!”  No! I try to, but it's hard. It's hard. It's practice. But I'm glad that you have found it.

Chris Roberts: [00:18:49] 

Yes. And I hope to continue more on my own in private, maybe to your YouTube video, not next to another sweaty body somewhere and dealing with my own body shame with another person present.

Mary Reynolds: [00:19:06] 

There are a lot of videos out there that you can do in the comfort of your own home.

Christina Roberts: [00:19:10] 

Yes.

Mary Reynolds: [00:19:11] 

Thank you. Thanks for having me. Adam was right. You guys are awesome. All of you. 

Kristina Kaiser: [00:19:26] 

Well, this is the part of our podcast where we take a little bit of time to talk about what we are into… 

Christina Roberts: [00:19:32] This week, I am into breakfast dates, which I have been into for many years now. I don't know whenever the kids season hits, somehow evening dates just went out the window. And so, it dawned on us, I don't remember what child like, “Oh, they're in like preschool or something right now. We could actually have a breakfast date.” And so that is a highlight for me, is having breakfast dates. And we just discovered Ancora Cafe just opened up. It’s new café in town. And they have these… normally I don't eat French toast. That's not my thing. I do savory, But I'm like, “I'm going to order two things, a savory thing and a sweet thing.” And they have these French toast dipsticks with this amazing sauce that you dip it in and I like can't wait for Date Day next week so that I could get it again because it was lovely. So that is what I am into this week.

Chris Roberts: [00:20:19] 

Well, I've been into poetry and particularly poetry that talks about light. And there are some Mary Oliver poems that have been talking to about light. Right now, the sun is shining brightly in the morning. We are sort of hopefully on the on the cusp of spring. And so I've been exploring all the different facets of light. And I've also been thinking about the colors that light brings out. And so, thinking about whites and yellows and reds and pinks and purples, particularly as the sun is rising or setting. So I've been into poetry exploring light.

Christina Roberts: [00:21:07] 

I like that because, I feel like, you were into light another week, but it was more about the twilight. So this is a nuanced light that you're bringing this week. So I love that.

Kristina Kaiser: [00:21:14] 

Yes. Exploring the space of light. Speaking of which, it has been light in the mornings, which, it's going to go away because we're going to get daylight savings, and then it's going to get dark again in the mornings. So, there's something beautiful about something that you know is not permanent. So, every morning when I get up, I'm enjoying the fact that it is light outside and doing my work out not in complete darkness. So that is what I am into today. 

So for those of you who are listening, if you are interested in more resources, definitely check out the description of this podcast for some of the things we mentioned today. Also, we invite you to check out thecontemplativelife.net. Thanks, everybody! See you later.