Ep 9 Contemplative Inspired Parenting

In this episode, we talk about how the contemplative life informs our parenting. But! Even if we don’t have children, relationships are relationships! Each person in the world has agency – freedom of choice, freedom to think. And how our agency interacts with others can sometimes be wonderful and can sometimes be anything but.

What’s more, each of us is living the context of our own set of struggles. What happens when all of that crashes into the story of everyone else we’re coming into contact with? And how does that interplay with our desire to see others we love thrive in their own journeys? Join us as we contemplate together. 

Additional Resources:

Author: Ruth Haley Barton – Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership

#payingattention
#LovingKindness
#Poetry
#Apophatic
#Prayer
#SpiritualCompanioning
#SpiritualDirection

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Transcript

 SUMMARY KEYWORDS

contemplative, children, parenting, prayer, dreams, kids, parent, 

Dominic Kaiser: 00:00

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens. 

I'm Christina Roberts. 
 I'm Chris Roberts. 
 I'm Kristina Kaiser. We're glad you joined us.

Christina: 00:21

Hello, it is great to be with you! Today we're going to be talking about how the contemplative life informs our parenting. And we just want to acknowledge, first of all, that not everyone has children that's listening to this podcast. Or, maybe you don't have children at home anymore. But I think that the ideas that we're talking about are applicable to maybe work or other relationships in your life because the thing is, is that, children have their own agency. And so does everybody else that we are interacting with in our lives. And I think sometimes, as parents, it's easy to mix up what we think our parenting should look like, our roles with our children, and how that intersects with our own individual agency as human beings. 

I also want to acknowledge that the three of us are very much in the thick of parenting right now. The combined of our households include adoptive children, biological children, spanning from preschool through middle school. So we're not coming here as experts saying, "We have it all together." But we are more talking about how we're navigating our own parenting, what we're learning, and how the contemplative informs that. So let's talk about that today.

Chris: 01:33

Yeah, I think for myself, when I think about the contemplative, and how it's been helpful for me as a parent, I tend to be a person who is shame-based. And I'm saying that, that's not good. It's not bad. That's just my journey. That's what's happened. And I think the contemplative has helped me to pay attention to ways shame manifests itself in my life. And I have been diligent to read books and listen to podcasts to help myself become a person that is, sort of, pushing shame out of his life. But I think it shows up a lot in my parenting. And I think it's one of the ways that I, as a contemplative, I want to pay attention. 

So you would think that, if you're a person who has shame in their life, that you wouldn't then shame other people. But that isn't how it works. If you've picked up on shame, you then transmit shame to others. It's probably learned behavior. And so I would never purposely want to shave my children. But I think being a person who pays attention, who contemplates his actions, the words that he says, even down to...

I think it was a few days ago, I was talking to my son, and I was saying, "Do you want to be the only one at school that doesn't wear a backpack?" And it's like, "Oh, wait, that's, that's a shaming technique." And so I think for me personally, it's changed how I communicate. It's changed how I interact with the kids on different topics. I no longer try to get them to do what I want them to do. Mostly. I still fall into that trap sometimes.

But I'm becoming aware of, like you said, Christina, we all have our own agency. And what is the goal of parenting? What is my goal? And my goal is to pay attention to myself and what comes up inside of me. And like you said earlier, it's not just our children that causes these things to surface in our lives. It could be a co-worker that you think of as a child who causes these things to surface in your life. So that's what I think of when I think of how is the contemplative life helped me? 

Kristina: 04:28

I think that notion of paying attention...when you say "paying attention," I just glom right on to it. Because in my world, I feel like I'm naturally driven. And I kind of enjoy that about myself. When things get really busy, my energy level goes right up. I'm like, "Alright, we're gonna come to this and do it! It's gonna be great!" But my kids don't need all that; they don't want all that. 

I was naturally very performance oriented as a child. So thankfully, I at least read their faces a little bit. I found that if they asked me, like, to look at their paper, or to hear a song that they just wrote, or to look at this outfit that they put together, if I wasn't giving them a response that really blessed their inner-self, that the face would fall. And I would think, "Shoot!" right, "I missed it! I messed it all up!" maybe because I was preoccupied, or because I would have done it differently. There's a billion reasons for why. 

And I think back to my own childhood, I once remember asking my dad how I looked. And he said, "Well, you look like a girl." And I was so deflated about that. I wanted something more effervescent. And so I have found that this notion of paying attention... and it's not easy, because they will come at you and come at you. 

So a few years ago, I ran into a guided meditation. And the Loving Kindness Meditation is out there in so many forms. So I feel like you could encounter it differently in different places. But this one really asked you to see the person's face in your mind. And it really helped me because doing homework with my kids brings up all of my drivenness, right? All the ways in which I want to succeed, and I would want you to succeed for your benefit, of course. So to see their faces in my mind, and then speak, "May you be blessed, may you be happy, may you have peace, may you be safe, may you be healthy, whatever it is," that was really touching. It helps me remember: I don't just want them to succeed. I love them, I care about them. But I can easily lose touch because success is very important to me. So yes, this paying attention is very helpful.

Christina: 06:55

Yeah, and, Chris, I appreciate what you're saying, too, about your goal in parenting or what successful parenting looks like is noticing what's going on in yourself. And I think that has been a shift in my life as well of: It's not about how my kids turn out or if they're behaving a certain way, or whatever it is. But how am I showing up as a parent and responding? 

And interestingly, I think that has really taken root lately in my prayer life in different ways. I'm noticing, when my kids were much younger, I had these different prayer books about 30 ways pray with your kids or for your kids. And so I had these different topics of wanting to pray blessings over this and that, and I was very, sort of, scripted in my prayer and was making sure that I was investing prayer energy and positive things into their lives. Where now it's like: You know what, that is not the type of prayer parenting that I...is that a word "parenting-prayer"...that I want to offer. But it's more so as something's coming up with my kids, first, I have to go with, "Okay, God, what emotion is rising up in me? My child's doing something that is a disappointment to me. Or I'm concerned about what they're doing. Or I'm worried about it." 

And so first having to deal with my own emotion and naming that. And then I feel like I'm in a much different place to then interact with whatever it might be to hold space for them and to listen to God on their behalf and to be with them or to respond lovingly. You know, Kristina, you're Loving Kindness, I love that, having the picture of your child in mind. And so I think for me, that's been a huge shift of: Instead of, "I'm praying to you or for you," it's like, "No, first I'm noticing myself, inviting God into my own perceptions, and then letting it flow from there."

Chris: 08:35

Yeah, I think you know, what you said, Christina, about praying for your kids and how that changes...I don't think it's just changed prayer for my kids. But oftentimes, I like I find, I don't really know what to pray. Obviously, I am a caring parent. And a caring parent prays for their children, engages with the divine on on the behalf of his kids. 

And so one of the things that's changed just over the past couple of years is this idea of "apophatic prayer." And I won't go into a lot of it, but I've since created prayer beads. And I just rotate through these beads. And I pray for my children. I'm not saying any words, but I am mindful of them. I am aware of them as I'm moving through prayer. I'm putting these beads through rotation. So I think that's how I've changed in my prayer life with my children.

Christina: 09:38

And I like that because I think it shifts from trying to fix our kids, or manipulate, or control, which I totally do. If my child's inconveniencing me, I can easily whip out the...you know, and they don't know that that's what it is. But if I'm being honest with myself, I'm trying to manipulate the situation because I'm inconvenienced. And I want to do what I want to do. But I think what you're saying of just allowing that, of holding space for your kids, or having that empathetic prayer, I think has definitely shifted me away from that fixing parenting to more of just a delight. Like: Who are you? Who is in front of me right now? And what does it mean to be in this moment with my child? Yes, I'm reading the same story 13 times, and I don't really want to read this story again. But you know what? This is the moment. That's the invitation here. And I can choose to engage, or I can lovingly shift if that's the right choice as well. But just coming from a different energy space, I guess.

Kristina: 10:31

Yeah. And it's funny, I feel like I don't know a ton about Communal, Contemplative. I feel like I'm just coming into this notion of: How do you invite a community into the experience together? But with parenting, I need all the people because I feel so worried all the time. And then I feel shame, to Chris's point, that I feel worried because I shouldn't feel worried or something like that. 

But to have somebody else remind me of, like, time and how time affects things, and that we can't really know, and to have them join me, then allows me to be able to dial back when I go into my own prayer experience so that I can say, "God, these are Yours, right?" And sit and breathe and bless them and look for the good. 

But I like the notion to have that I don't always need a word to pray for my kids. I can just sit...Who was it? Is it Ruth Haley Barton that talks about just lighting the candle? And how intercession is not always words. It is just like: I'm sitting. And by way of thinking of you, you are in the room, which was such a powerful and relieving notion for me that I don't always have to have a word. So Chris, I really appreciate what you're saying, there.

Chris: 11:50

I think poetry has also been very helpful to me as well, just reading poetry because it has a way of broadening and expanding my awareness of life in general. I sometimes become so myopic on my situation, and my circumstances, and my children, and my relationships. And poetry just has a way of making everything broader, and opening up the universe for myself. And it's just sort of saying, "It's gonna be okay." 

And to that issue of time, a lot of times, if we just let time play out, a lot of our issues in life will work themselves out, particularly with our children. I think a lot of times I get intense about a certain certain thing that one of my children is doing. And if I just take a step back and let time play out, it will resolve itself. 

Christina: 12:49

Yeah, and I think, too, kind of going back to, maybe, my early parenting, and much more of a driven-worried kind of prayer and checking all the prayer boxes that maybe existed as a parent...And I think now, trying to lean into the space of releasing and letting go and being open, I've noticed that my kids are showing up more in my dream life. And I'm paying attention to that in new ways of: Okay, what is going on in my mind? What are some of the words that are maybe being worked out in my nighttime dreaming? What are some things where I'm feeling invitation? There was something striking in that dream or something disturbing in that dream, that maybe, then, invites me to pray in a different way. And so I have found that that's been a really interesting, fascinating aspect of ways in which I'm interacting with my children. 

And again, not that I'm saying every dream is from the Divine, or whatever. I think sometimes we just have dreams. But I do think that even on a psychological level, sometimes it's stuff that's being worked out in me at night, and there's something about that open space in the bedtime hours, that I found very compelling to interact with. 

Chris: 13:54

Yeah, I like what you're saying about that, Christina. And I think you've definitely been an influence in my life, and helping me pay attention to my own dreams. And I rarely dream. And whenever I find myself paying attention to a dream that I had the night before I really feel like it has importance and significance. And so I've recently had dreams about my children, and I find it very fascinating to pay attention to that dream: What is coming forth from the dream? What is God trying to highlight? Or what is it my subconscious and what trying to come forth from the dream world? And how is that trying to interact with my walking life, my daily, "one foot in front of the other" life? And so, it's been very helpful for me to pay attention to my dreams, and I find that it has a lot of significance and bearing on how I care for my children in the real world.

Christina: 15:05

Yeah. And I think that can be a huge jumping off point for conversation. And  there's a few people who I meet with for one-on-one spiritual companioning. And often they will bring a dream to me and we will discuss together: What do we think that means? And what comes up with you as you think about this dream? 

And again, not that we're changing our whole lives around this, but it really does inform some different things that, maybe, we wouldn't otherwise notice. I think, Chris, even your point about how poetry...it's different language, different images...somehow just enrich our lives in our experience and the way that we're taking in the world around us. And I think that's the same way when we look at different symbols or ideas and dreams of, you know, not a literal interpretation, necessarily. But what does that symbolism speak to me in ways that maybe when I'm in the thick of parenting, I'm too close to the situation. There's too much emotion and personal stakes involved, where sometimes having that little bit of buffer, where I can breathe and take things in a different way. I'm hearing it different as a parent, and I can receive some of the course correction or the realignment. I think, again, something that I really appreciate about the contemplative is: There's always invitation to realign. And when we're coming into those honest places, what is there and how is God encouraging a realignment to be happening?

Christina: 16:18

Well, thanks. What a generative conversation today about parenting. And this is the part of our podcast where we talk about what we're into this week.

Kristina: 16:31

I have been dying to say that when I am into right now is wasabi peas. It's been  a long time since we had them. And then we randomly saw them at the store. And we were like: Yes! Yes! Let's get them. And that we introduce them to all of our children. So yes, wasabi peas are my favorite right now.

Chris: 16:53

Well, I have been into Wanda Vision, a Marvel television series on Disney Plus. It has been so fun watching this series with my two oldest children. And it's really opening up a lot in them with theories and conspiracies. And it's just fun to watch it play out as they watch a new episode. They're like, "Oh, what's going to happen next?!" And I just really have enjoyed watching this television series with my kids and my family.

Christina: 17:29

So, to state the obvious, Chris and I are married. And so a lot of times we are into the same things because we are under the same roof. And that is what I was going to be into this week as well because if you are a Roberts, you are definitely into Wanda Vision lately. And I think we're maybe a little bit late to the game. We had some friends that were talking all about this show and thought okay, "We'll give it a try." And yes, it has definitely been very interesting conversations. Our youngest goes to bed, and then we've been watching it. Our older two had some days off of school, and so we have been engaging in that. And it's been a fun family activity for all. 

Thanks so much for joining us today. And we look forward to seeing you next week, same time, same place. Until then, make it a great week.