Ep 3 Contemplative Social Justice

Can the contemplative help us with social justice?

In this episode, we spend time asking where the work of justice begins and we talk about how the contemplative might help us find our way into long-lasting impact. We'd love to hear from you. Please join the conversation in the comments. 

Additional Resources
The Book of Joy by His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, with Douglas Abrams
Dave's Bread
RBG Documentary

#Benedictine Spirituality
#JoanChittister
#LovingKindness
#ActsOfKindness

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Transcript

 SUMMARY KEYWORDS

contemplative, social justice, listening, justice, equity, contemplate, fair trade

Dominic Kaiser  00:06

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens.

I'm Christina Roberts.
I'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser. We're glad you joined us. 

Kristina Kaiser  00:23

Hello, it's great to be with you. Today, we're going to be spending some time talking about our experiences with engaging the contemplative in the midst of social justice work. And for you guys, Chris, and Christina, I am very excited to be talking about this because I feel like it comes up all the time in my circles. It's easy to feel angry when we're engaged in social justice, it's easy to feel overwhelmed. And sometimes that can even lead to feeling like, maybe I shouldn't do anything. We just feel paralyzed in the midst of it. 

And I feel like over the last couple of years, I hear more and more people saying, "I wonder if the contemplative can help with some of this stuff that we experience in the emotional realm. I wonder if there's anything there for us in terms of sustainability even." And so I have personally been looking towards people like the Dalai Lama and Archbishop Desmond Tutu. They wrote this great book, "The Book of Joy." And they talk, every now and again, throughout the whole book about social justice. For instance, they say: The ability to be present in each moment is nothing more and nothing less than the ability to accept the vulnerability and discomfort and anxiety of everyday life. 

And so I wonder, what are your experiences with all of this? What do you think about when you think about the contemplative and social justice?

Christina Roberts  01:51

For me, I remember a situation a couple years ago where I was listening to a Benedictine nun talk about social justice as one of their core values, justice is a piece of that. And she started her lecture saying: In our minds, whatever we picture social justice to mean, what comes to mind? And often it's things like, maybe going to a march expressing activism. Or tangibly doing some things on behalf of others. And she dialed us back and said: You know, I believe that justice starts with listening. 

And it was a jarring statement, because I don't think that's what we were expecting her to say. But her and then also another Benedictine nun that I have been really helped by is sister Joan Chittister. And she also writes about this aspect of listening and the multi dimensional-ness of listening, that we listen to the stirrings going on in our own hearts. We listen to the wider world around us. We listen to Scripture. And we also listen to wise discernment. 

And I think that that's really important, as we're talking about justice, and the contemplative because, like you, Kristina, I think this does come up quite a bit in people that I'm interacting with, and such a deep passion and desire to see change in the world, to see equity on a variety of issues. And so I think sometimes, one of the frames that I use that I found really helpful is thinking in terms of concentric circles. Where I think a lot of times we kind of go to those outer rings of a disturbing news article, or hearing somebody's story that really stirs us with anger, or a sense of feeling overwhelmed, rather than possibly looking at the frame from the concentric circles with that inner circle being me. And where am I at right now in my own relationship with God and with the scriptures? And what's informing that? Maybe that next layer being those in my immediate circle, whether that be family, close friends, people whom I trust. Maybe a little bit wider to colleagues, schools, or neighborhoods, perhaps our city's civil issues going on there, and then the wider world. 

And I think sometimes when we are in some of those outer circles, and we find ourselves maybe being, I don't know, triggered, or, in a wonderful, compassionate way emotional about something, I find it helpful to go back to some of those inner circles of: Okay, I want to listen on all the different dimensions. And what's coming up in me? And sometimes I think we can quickly go through those circles. And it's like: Oh, well, this is obvious. In this situation, I can easily have a conversation, write a check, show up at an event. 

Sometimes, though, I think it's not as easy, and we have to maybe spend some time in that inner circle of: What is rising up in me? And why do I have the particular emotions today around this justice issue? And I think that when we're faithful to do that, to your point, I think that really makes a difference with a one-time reaction versus a sustainable value of justice that we express.

Chris Roberts  05:00

Yeah, I think what comes up for me, having a missions background, being involved in missions for a number of years and a pastoral background, I think justice and need are two different things. And I think we're always surrounded by need. But justice is looking at the long term. How do we affect change over the long term? And I remember, we were preparing to go to Rwanda. And we were thinking about: What are some things that we could do as we go over to Rwanda? And we had a wonderful friend give us a piece of advice about thinking long term. 

And he told a story about people going over to Africa or going over to these nations that have a lot of need. And they want to be helpful. And he told a story where some people came over on a missions trip with some shoes. They brought a whole village some shoes. What ended up happening is, the shoes wore out. The shoes softened the soles of their feet. And then whenever they went back to barefoot, many got sick. And some of them even died. And so he was encouraging us to think: What are you going to do that helps people in the long term? How are you going to change systems? 

And so that always stuck with me. The change that we're going to affect in the world,  how can we make it sustainable? And how can we make it the long game instead of responding to these short-term needs? And I think that's where contemplation comes in is: because in order to look at something in a long-term way, you actually have to contemplate: Okay, what is it that we want to do here? What is it that we want to see? what long term change do we want to see happen? So that's what comes up for me when we think about social justice and the contemplative.

Kristina Kaiser  07:17

And when we think about that long game, how do you approach it, contemplatively speaking, do you think?

Chris Roberts  07:32

I personally go back to something that Christina said. I think about: Okay, who are my connections? And what is it that we want to see happen in the world? So I'm a part time bus driver and have been a part time bus driver for years. And so I'm met with need all the time. I see kids coming on my bus that have a rope tied around their waist that they're using for a belt, and they're asking other people for food. And so, you know, you mentioned the backpack program, and it's like: Okay, who can I be in relationship with to help these kids over the long term? And so I think about: Who are my circles, that we could think about doing this together? And not just doing something for the year, but doing something that is going to last for years to come.

Kristina Kaiser  08:32

Yeah, these concentric circles are very helpful, I think, for me, because they're chatting about the relational aspect. Social Justice is very hard to engage with by yourself. It can be useful, right? In a moment where I'm engaging the topic, I'm learning about it, and I need to have an emotional moment that is uniquely mine. That feels helpful. But then once you are trying to actually do something over the long term, I'm so with you on that. 

It also occurs to me is we're talking, there's the notion of things that are "out there," right, like: Oh, there's people that, when they wear shoes, this actually doesn't help the whole ecosystem of their body. But then there's the things that happen close to home, too. And so I think of relationships...I don't know...I mean this has been a great year for people to have a lot to say on the political aspect of relationship. But even before this year, I feel like these issues of: What is "equity" and what is "fairness" have come up. And sometimes that comes up in an interpersonal way with people that you love and care about. It's very difficult. When they talk about social justice, they often talk about: See something, say something right? And that's not so easy to do in relationship with people. So they tend to get mad: Are you calling? 1Are you saying?! This is a challenging thing that we are invited into. 

And I have found, for example, the "loving kindness meditation" to be very helpful. So first, it's "to accept oneself:" may I be happy, may I be at peace, may I be well. And then to turn out to people that you care about, and then maybe people that you have difficult relationship with. And so sometimes I break that up into different days: Maybe just today, I'll focus on me, and tomorrow, we'll focus on you. It depends how much time one has.

But just to keep that connection going...If I think back to "The Book of Joy," they tell this really poignant story about this guy who's been imprisoned, and that his goal is not to hate the people that are imprisoning him. And it's really difficult because they treat them very poorly. So how connection relationally fits into all of this feels like a really big issue, too.

Christina Roberts  11:03

Yeah. And I think one question that I find really helpful is: What's mine to do? Because when we talk about social justice, that's a huge umbrella term that encompasses so many different things. And as I interact with different people, and myself included, again, even in this brief conversation thus far, we've mentioned: Global Issues, or prison, or there's environmental issues, race issues, sexual orientation equity, all of these different issues. There's a lot going on. And I think that's where some of the overwhelming piece is. 

And so I think recognizing "what's mine to do" seems to be helpful. And sometimes, so for example, and prisons aren't open right now, but there's a lot of things that you have to do in order to go in to visit people in prison. And so that's not really mine to do right now. But I can buy Dave's Bread, which is a little bit more expensive bread, but this is a guy who used to be in prison, came out, and recognized that it was really difficult for people to get jobs. And so his whole bread business is based on...and if you go to his website, there's stories and testimonials of people that had a record and are now helping to run this bread business. And it's an incredible opportunity for people that have a criminal record. And so that's mine to do. I can buy Dave's Bread. And my children know that, and we read the package, and we talk about what it means to have some equity in employment with people that have a criminal record. 

So again, and feeling good about that. For right now, that's mine to do, and that's okay. And then maybe on another issue, there might be a little bit more or different expression. But I think that that, again, is really helpful, Chris, to your point earlier of, we contemplate and we ask those questions instead of being reactionary in...and an urgency. And clearly there are urgencies. And sometimes I think the matter at hand does require a different response. But I think having that pause seems to be really helpful.

Chris Roberts  13:05

Yeah, and I think, going back to some of the interpersonal stuff that you were talking about earlier. I think what's helpful for me is there is no "us" and there is no "them." There's only us. And so whenever you eliminate the people that are "other," the thing that you do to yourself, you're doing to everyone. And so how you would act on your own behalf is how you should act on the behalf of others, including those that don't believe that, those that think differently than you, those that think that there is an "us versus them." And so that's the challenging part for me is: How do I view them as "us,"  whenever they clearly have an "us versus them" mentality? And I think you just have to continue to contemplate: What what would it look like for me to draw them into this, to act as if that is not their viewpoint, to continue to say: They are us as well.

Kristina Kaiser  14:11

I really like that. Particularly, there's another poignant moment where, and I don't remember if it's the Dalai Lama, or Desmond Tutu, but they're talking about how proper that people can be sometimes. And then, if something falls, and everybody scrambles to pick it up, and you see their humaneness, and that has been a very important piece of trying to maintain that sense of "not us versus them" for me is: These are people. When when things happen, they have the same emotions that I can have. They get scared, they get anxious, they get nervous. They feel the same emotions that I feel. They cry. All people cry.

And so that has also been very helpful. I find that, as we're all talking, this notion of staying flexible because of whatever the needs are of the day comes to mind. Like, Christina, you were saying: Maybe I can't go to the prison today, but I can buy this bread, right? "What can I do today," feels like a really big thing because the issues are large, and we feel small sometimes. But if my grocery store has Fair Trade bananas, I can buy Fair Trade bananas. Currently, my grocery store does not. So I can go to the service desk and ask for Fair Trade babnans, which really blesses somebody in another part of the world that I don't even know. And I really appreciate this notion of: I get to love somebody that is my neighbor, even if I don't know them. So I think contemplative flexibility has been huge.

Christina Roberts  15:51

I think one more thing, as we're talking about this is, again, most of justice work is the day in day in, day out, one foot in front of the other. It's not the big moments. And I think we tend to live for the wow moments of justice, where we get to experience the tipping points, or those sorts of different parts of history or of our work. But I think a lot of it is just sort of the mundane commitment to whatever it is that's yours to do, and doing it over and over and over again. 

And interestingly, I was just watching the documentary with my daughters about RBG, the documentary about Justice Ginsburg, and just sort of recognizing, too some of her strategic moments, that some turning points in her work towards equity for women and gender equality...one of her prime cases that did that was actually a case for a man who had a wife who died in childbirth. And so he chose to stay home and care for the young baby for the first four to six months or something of his life. And had the wife been the one caring. And if he had passed away, she would have gotten social security and some different government assistance. But because it was opposite, he wasn't receiving that. And so she knew that advancing her cause meant taking this case, and that the men on the court would be sympathetic, because: If I have a male sitting next to me, and they're seeing his story, they're going to identify in a certain way. 

And sure enough, it was a very shrewd strategic move. But she was looking bigger than just: I have to advocate for women. But there's a whole thing here. And so I think, sometimes in our work, too, it is the day to day. It is the moment-by-moment. And then sometimes we get those strategic opportunities that might not even seem like the actual thing that we're doing. But again, I think if we're paying attention and that listening piece, when the opportunities do come, we're willing to take that and see the course over the long haul.

Kristina Kaiser  17:49

Yes, the listening piece is very helpful.

So maybe we are at a moment where we can take that opportunity to talk about what we are into, what is energizing us, what is bringing us life. 

I think I am into sparkly eyeshadows. You guys are gonna find that light is a huge theme for me. And a friend of mine sent me a pallet of sparkly eyeshadow. And it brings me great joy to just...like occasionally, I get sparkle on somebody else if I hug them, and it's just this happy thing in my life. So sparkly eyeshadow is bringing me great joy.

Christina Roberts  18:34

What I'm into this week is the joy of snow. And so we live in Wisconsin, which, you know, we often get snow. But I was just listening to a podcast about the book "Wintering," and she talked about this idea that: In children's storybooks, snow represents this magic that happens. So Narnia - you crossover and there's this magical Kingdom of snow. Or often snow represents this transitional, magical moment, and it makes the landscape...it's like equity, right? All of a sudden anything ugly in the landscape looks beautiful with this fresh snow on it, and it brings a sense of equity to the earth, kind of the justice piece we're talking about. And so the other day we got a large snow, and just watching the magic, and our children played outside for, I think, six hours straight. They took a brief 10-minute "let me eat some lunch," but just the delight of making the snow forts. And I love walking in the woods with the fresh snow on the trees and just experiencing the magic of snow. So that is what I am into this week.

Chris Roberts  19:37

And along the same lines of snow falling and our kids playing outside, I think I've really been energized by acts of kindness. My neighbors lately have been using their snowblowers and shovels and they've been going a little bit extra. They've been doing the long part of our sidewalk. And so whenever we had that big snow yesterday it was so fun to take my kids, and we were able to do parts of our neighbor's driveways and stuff. And so that was really fun interacting with our kids, doing these acts of kindness and, sort of, perpetuating this idea of doing good deeds in the neighborhood.

Kristina Kaiser  20:22

That is so amazing. 

So thanks, everybody for being with us today. We will see you again soon. And if you'd like more information or want to check out any more resources, check out thecontemplativelife.net.