Ep 85 Compassion in Today’s World

Today, Marv Baldwin joins us to talk about the experience of engaging the spiritual journey to discover the pull on our hearts towards love and compassion, the struggles we tend to encounter once we become aware of that internal desire, and what we can do to stay grounded and centered in the midst of it all. 

Marv Baldwin is a pastoral counselor and spiritual director living in Western Springs, IL. He founded Soul Journeys in 2018 and is honored journeying with small groups, individuals and organizations as we explore the Divine in our midst. Marv's compassion to serve those who are hurting led him to join the Butterfly PAC who is shifting the political focus to first think about those in need. By honoring and listening to the voices of those who suffer and providing opportunities to speak truth to power, the Butterfly PAC's aim is to invite those with position, power, and or resources to answer their compassionate call from within to prioritize those hurting and in need. Marv's beloved is Amy and they have 3 wonderful adult-ing children. 

Additional Resources:

Website: Soul Journeys
Website: Butterfly PAC
Spiritual Practices Resource: Inner Exploration Guide – Courage to be Compassionate from Soul Journeys
Book: Where the Crawdads Sing by Delia Owens
Book: The Dance of the Dissident Daughter by Sue Monk Kidd

#CenteringPrayer
#BreathPrayer
#MeisterEckhart
#SocialJustice
#InnerJourney
#Compassion
#Love
#Listening
#Spiritual Direction

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Transcript

 SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Compassion, journey, listening, connection, activism, spirituality, 

SPEAKERS: Christina Roberts, Chris Roberts, Kristina Kaiser with Guest Speaker Marv Baldwin

Dominic Kaiser 00:06

Welcome to The Contemplative Life. Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens.

I'm Christina Roberts.
I'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser. We're glad you joined us.  

Hello, it's great to be with you. Today we have Marv Baldwin with us. He is a pastoral counselor and spiritual director. He founded Soul Journeys in 2018, and is honored to be journeying with small groups, individuals and organizations as they explore the Divine in their midst. His compassion to serve those who are hurting led him to join the Butterfly PAC, which is shifting the political focus to think about those in need. Marv’s beloved is Amy, and they have three wonderful adulting children. So thank you, Marv, so much for being with us. We're so excited to have you here on the podcast.

Marv Baldwin 01:11

Kristina, thanks for the invitation. It's great to be with all of you. 

Kristina Kaiser  01:15

I would love to dive into some of this topic of compassion that we've been talking a little bit about in the bio here. Compassion has been something that speaks to your heart. Can you tell us a little bit more about that journey? Why has this been an area that has been so captivating to you?

Marv Baldwin 01:35

Hmm, thanks for that. I think I was sort of surprised by love in my 20s, trying to live a very successful career growing type path, and discovered sort of this powerful love within, that was quite a surprise. At the time, I think I was 27 at the time. And that really sort of set me on this course to sort of figure out what had happened to me, but also kind of realizing that within each of us has this sense of compassion and love that we all carry. And I guess over time what I've realized is that it's just sometimes hard to tap into it in our sort of busy, secularized, materialistic lives.  I guess my journey has sort of been really sort of trying to navigate that for myself, but also realizing that others are trying to navigate that too, and trying to be responsive to that love that's welling up within them. But it's hard sometimes to tap into that love, it also taps into a lot of pain. And so that can also prevent people from kind of living out their compassion.  They may feel deep compassion, but the pain that comes with it or re-living pain that has brought them to that place may keep them from living it up. So yeah, it's been a very personal journey, but also sort of sense from very early on, that we're sort of all on this journey, I think, in some way. And compassion looks quite different from person to person and feels in and comes about quite differently from person to person as well.

Chris Roberts  03:38

So you mentioned it being difficult to live this out. And some of the some of the words you mentioned were busy, materialistic.  Can you speak personally to how you have been able to maybe practice spiritual practices that have kept you from being busy or materialistic? What have been some of your journeys into sort of keeping that separate from living out of this place of compassion?

Marv Baldwin 04:11

Yeah. Chris, thanks for that question.  I have tried all kinds of spiritual practices over the years and worked on a number of them. I think originally, the spiritual practice that probably helped me the most was centering prayer. And I did that quite a bit for a number of years, as I've sort of worked through different practices. I think for me, some of the practices that seemed to work the best, involve different sorts of breath practices, because I find that both my intellectual activity, my emotional activity, and even some deeper motivational type activity can really distract me. And so a lot of times breath practice is a great way to sort of find some sort of emptiness or quietness. 

I think what's been interesting in the last several years is sort of the idea that everything is potentially a guidance or teacher for us, right?  And so in my own life, that's kind of hard to accept, because sometimes it's like, I don't really want to feel that way. Or I don't really want to do that. And yet you realize that sort of accepting that sense that you have within yourself, that push back, but then something you need to do is important, and actually provides even more freedom and space because you're actually kind of working against your own wiring and your own sense of who you want to be or what your own agenda is. I've done a lot of reading lately, too, and sort of praying with Meister Eckhart, who basically is a mystic. I still have so much to learn but one of his big areas of focus was on humility. And he felt like one of the big issues that in his time was that people were not humble enough to really be able to connect closely with the Divine. And the oneness, as he would sometimes say it, or the ground of being he would use that word as well. And so I think there's a lot there that I'm sort of, at the place of learning as well around humility and sort of figuring that out. And sometimes it feels like I'm groping in the dark to be candid with you. 

Christina Roberts  07:04

I'm struck by your comment earlier, that compassion looks different for all of us and that kind of hard wiring. It sounds like yours is much of an inner journey of humility, love, acceptance, etc. And I think I would imagine in your work too words, like maybe activism, justice, outward sort of focused words come up, depending on the personality. And so I'm curious, where do you see the intersection between that kind of personal inner journey of compassion and that outward expression?

Marv Baldwin 07:32

Yeah. So I think one of the things that I think was most telling for me is…so let me think about sort of how to say this.   Let me just use the word experiential. Because I think a lot of times, contemplation sort of gets a bad rap, in that it sort of seems like it might be very theological and very sort of bookish or navel gazing oriented. But the truth of the matter is that I don't think you can separate contemplation from activism. Because I think, at least for me, and I think for a lot of people, maybe most people, maybe all of us, at some level, as we get involved in activism, we sort of come face to face with the real stuff of our inner lives.  Sometimes that's hard to deal with. And so people get away from it or don't face it. But I also think that it can be really life changing. If you sort of accept that as you sort of reach out in a compassionate way to others, and try to loose the chains of injustice in some way, then you're going to be spiritually impacted, or vice versa. When you get contemplative and put yourself in a place of being utilized, you will be.  Sometimes that's not so easy to do.  I think it's kind of this ebb and flow. We sort of want it to be linear, and I think it's sort of part and parcel. So, yeah, I don't know if I'm answering your question, Christina?

Christina Roberts  09:45

I appreciate that. It reminds me of a Sister that I really respect here in the Madison area. I've listened to a seminar she did about justice, and her first statement was that Justice starts with listening. And I appreciated that. I think it speaks to what you're talking about with the contemplative and listening to self, listening to others, and then from that may come different activism type things. The importance of listening. And so I love what you're saying about sometimes contemplative may not seem like a word that we might use with activism and justice, but it just goes hand in hand. So yes, I appreciate that.

Marv Baldwin 10:15

Well, I'm glad you said the word listening, because I think that's sort of one of the big, aha in my journey that it is about listening. And one of the things I got a chance to do for a number of years was I worked for a nonprofit that helps people around the world grow their own food. So we worked in developing countries with small scale farmers. And what I found there was a lot of spiritual depth, and a lot of material poverty, but a lot of spiritual depth.  But also to listen to sort of those voices and realize that in a lot of places, like the US and other countries that are better off and communities that are better off, a lot of times sort of that spiritual connection is almost harder to find. Because there's so much noise, materialism, busyness, etc. So listening really, yeah, I'm glad you said that. Thanks. You gotta listen.

Kristina Kaiser  11:30

I'm curious, as we're talking here, there are definitely things that resonate with my own story. Like, you haven't used the word, emotional repression, or I guess that's two words. But I think I can be an emotional repressor at times. And so I feel like I've picked up that possibility. And I often have to lean into others who are better at kind of sitting in that difficult space for longer than I would feel comfortable sitting in that space. Sometimes people talk about privilege in a way, like we want to stay comfortable. And so we try to keep things even keel. I'm wondering, in all that you've connected with, how does the contemplative fit and connect to the community? How do you deal with your emotion in the midst of all of it? I know, you've used that word hard.

Marv Baldwin 12:28

Wow, there's a lot, there's a lot there. So how do I deal with my emotions? I think I've tried over time to be much more accepting of whatever is coming up. Because I spent a lot of my younger years trying to project a certain self out there to the world, to my family, to whatever situation I happen to be in. And that often included suppressing frustration and anger, or sadness or fear, or even at times, you know, joy in pain, ironically.  Just kind of being more stoic to others to project strength. And I think, and I think a lot of times, getting back to the earlier comment I made, I think a lot of times we can shut down to our own compassionate inkling, because it brings up it brings up things within us that we don't really like very well or don't want to feel or don't want to be. Just to give you an example, I was talking to somebody the other day, and they were talking about how they get so frustrated about basically injustice. And I said, good, good. But I don't want to be frustrated and said, Yeah, I know, none of us want to feel frustrated. But if you're facing injustice, you should feel frustrated. If you're helping someone that's facing injustice, you should feel frustrated and angry. And sometimes you need that energy to actually bring about a change. That doesn't mean you act out in ways that aren't helpful, but anger can actually be a great kind of motivator to take compassionate action, which may sound ironic, but it is true. And I think even Gandhi spoke to something about that. I can't remember the quote exactly, but it was sort of like you'd almost rather have somebody that was angry than peaceful because he could work with it. I'm not getting the quote, right. But there was this point about, you don't want complacency.

Chris Roberts  15:09

So yeah, this notion of if you're passionate or you're angry, you're at least feeling something. But if you're complacent or ambivalent about it, there's no action, there's just avoidance of the situation. So I appreciate you naming that.

Marv Baldwin 15:26

Well, and the other thing that I try to remind people of often, too, is that if you're really tapping into your compassion, there's a lot to be angry about. There's a lot of injustice in the world. As I worked with different people, to remind them that Jesus got angry. Buddha got angry. You know, I mean, they're in good company, the prophets, certainly, you know, the Old Testament prophets certainly could hand it out. 

Christina Roberts  16:10

And I wonder with that, how do you help one who is getting in touch with Yes, I'm angry, or I'm noticing these injustices, and there's something in me that can no longer be quiet about it. That journey of that awareness into their expression of compassion and how that's been expressed healthily into the world.

Marv Baldwin 16:26

Yeah, thanks for that question. I think one of the things that people often don't get started, because they don't realize that they've already started. If they have a desire, they're already on the path, right? And so what they really need to do is go, Okay, this desire is coming from my compassion, my sense of justice, however, they tend to name that inside them.   And I would say, that's connected to the Spirit or the Divine, or whatever kind of wording you want to use around that. But, once you have that desire, you can say, Oh, I'm on the path. So now begin. And I think the big thing is to realize that I think whatever showing up within you or around you, is potentially guidance for you, spiritual guidance for you, in some way, shape, or form. Sometimes it's hard to figure out exactly what that is, or how that's working. And sometimes it feels like it's just too much or it's unclear. And that's why spiritual direction, spiritual guidance, and spiritual companionship is, I think, very important in different ways. But I also think that the other thing we've sort of neglected is that there are influences, right? Unseen influences, and some people would say some kind of small s spiritual, or small g gods. I just generally call them powers or influences, because sometimes it's unclear.  But those powers and influences that are here among us really don't want us to be successful, necessarily, and living out justice, living out compassion, and those kinds of things. So there's a lot of push-back against the powers that be, the status quo, those kinds of things. And I think they happen politically, they happen economically, they happen even religiously. And so I think we have to be very aware that those sorts of influences do influence all of us. And so we have to be careful. And again, get back to the listening that you mentioned, to say, all right, which way do I go? How do I go? What steps do I take? How do I love others? How do I do that? 

Chris Roberts  19:13

In this case, it sounds like a lot of some of the stories are moving from a sunny spirituality into more of a nocturnal or what we say dark night of the soul.  Helping people embrace that type of spirituality where you're really questioning things that are uncomfortable, things that are ugly inside of you, things that make you feel like, Man, I don't want to be a part of this. I'd rather just avoid sticking my head in the sand and let somebody else do it. And you're talking about the importance of it.  Is there any other place besides spiritual guidance that you see helping individuals sort on this path of more of a dark night of the soul or nocturnal spirituality?

Marv Baldwin 20:05

You know, Chris, it's a great question. I mean, I think there's a lot. I think it's actually happening to all of us in different ways all the time. But I do think that there's so much avoidance of it both within and sort of outside of us.  We could contend with it in a lot of different ways. But we've sort of been trained to avoid it.  I think two areas, let me say three areas, because I just thought of a third one that people don't often recognize is that people will tell me they feel very free, or connected when they're in a nature setting. And yet, they don't sort of stop to sort of compare, like, why the heaviness? What's this heaviness I feel in my day-to-day life, and yet I go for a walk in the woods, and I suddenly feel connected and free, right? So you know, inquire about that difference, what's going on there. The second one that comes up with a lot of people, is a lot of people have images come to them, within them. I'm amazed at how many people do and sort of try to deny it.  Well yeah, I thought of this, or I thought of this movie scene, or I thought of this image in my mind. And a lot of times, that's guidance that's pointing you to something in the subconscious. And then a lot of people have dreams that they don't ever spend time on. And again, those are ways that I think sometimes we're getting these messages. And there's a fourth one too, I think repetition, right. You know, a lot of times we’ll be kind of like, here's something multiple times, and it's kind of pointing you to something that you maybe need to pay more attention to.  That often points us into, as you mentioned, sort of that shadow or the dark night. I'm not going to pretend to be any kind of expert on that. But I know from personal experience, and from working with so many others, there's a need to explore that and spend time with that. And that's very counterculture, as I think you're pointing to.  People want to be positive, right. And they want to be successful. And they want to be the light and not the darkness or the shadow. And the truth is we're both right, we're both lightness and darkness, shadow and light.

Kristina Kaiser  22:33

Marv, thank you so much for this conversation, I feel like there will be so much that one could dive into and digest and unpack again. So I really appreciate that. For our listeners, if you do want to get in touch with some of the work that Marv is doing, you'll be able to find links to that in the description. Also, we will be having a book study coming up just in a few days from when this podcast is released. So do go to our website, foundrysc.com, in order to find out ways that you can engage in social activism. But again, Marv, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

Marv Baldwin 23:13

Thank you, Kristina, Christina, and Chris.

Chris Roberts  23:18

Thank you.

Kristina Kaiser  23:25

And now is the moment in our podcast where we take a moment to talk about what we are into. So tell me, what are you into this week?

Christina Roberts  23:34

Well, I am into bento boxes. I appreciate bento boxes, and it's back to school lunch assembly time in our household. And it's amazing. There's something about the little squares and circles that just invites. Oh, I think some cherry tomatoes need to go here or raisins…just the delightful colors at the end of the bento box assembly. So I am just really appreciating our little bento boxes.

Chris Roberts  23:58

Well, I have been into a book and I'm not finished with it, but I've been into a book called Where the Crawdads Sing. What I really love about this book is just the images that this author portrays, like just the connection that the characters have with nature. I believe that the author is a zoologist so knows just a ton about birds and animals and its spot on. People living in the marsh of North Carolina and the way that she tells the story just really connects me to to nature and so I've been actually trying to go on walks and listen to the audiobook while I'm on a walk just to feel more connected to my space.  But it's a delightful book just for the the nature portrait that that the author portrays. 

Kristina Kaiser  24:54

Both of those things sound completely delightful. I am also into a book right now. So once a month, I have this book club that I'm a part of, and someone had suggested the Dance of the Dissident Daughter by Sue Monk Kidd. And initially, I wasn't sure that I wanted to because I'd already read a book on divine feminine. And this was like another foray into it. But this woman is so contemplative, that she lists out all these rituals that she's doing through her process, and she talks about how her dreams are fitting into her life story.  I feel so inspired to add more ritual to my life as a result of reading her books. I am also, just over halfway but loving her way of storytelling and how she adds sacred pieces into her day. 

Thank you, everyone for joining us today. We will look forward to being with you again next time.

Dominic Kaiser 25:56

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