Ep 78 Are Our Personalities Fixed

Today we’re talking about the possibility for evolution in our personalities as we grow and mature. For many of us, we tend to notice personal internal variances. Maybe we behave one way at home, one way at work, and another way in social situations. Maybe spiritual practices that used to work for us seem not to offer us the same spark and connection to the Divine that they once did. Today we talk about what might be going on for us as we walk through our lives, looking to understand who we are. Join us as we consider the questions and emerging data of our time regarding personality. 

Additional Resources:
Article: Personality Changes for the Better with Age, apa.org
Author: Ayo Yetunde – writer, professor, counselor 

#Personality
#ContemplativePractice
#Maturing
#Evolving 

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Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
personality, enneagram, mature, aging

Dominic Kaiser  00:06

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens. 

I'm Christina Roberts.
I'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser.  We're glad you joined us.  

Hello, it's good to be with you. Today we're taking some time to ask the question, are our personalities fixed? And so just a little bit of background for why this question is coming up. For a number of years, it was sort of widely thought that personality traits were fixed by genetics, but people continue to study things. And there's all this sociology reporting. And as enough data has emerged, it's starting to suggest that in fact, maybe personalities evolve over time, much like so many other things. And so there are these new studies and I can link some of these in the show notes, in case you're interested. But they've found that things like conscientiousness and agreeableness grow over time, while things like openness, how much we want to engage with others, if you can believe it, kind of declines over time. And so they're asking questions like, Why might this be? They're looking at nurture versus nature, and how our self beliefs and all of this comes into play, and finding that maybe maturation matters.  Maybe as we grow and mature, it does affect our personalities and how we manage ourselves.  Maybe that seems to play a role in personality development. And so this is all kind of emerging research and that being the case, I would love to open up the conversation as we think about this topic of first personality. I think personality is fascinating, I love to talk about it. But I feel like there's a gamut where some people just hate talking about personality, they hate the labels, they can't find where they fit. And then others really strongly identify with their types. And then there's everything in between. So as we begin today, what comes up for you? 

Christina Roberts  02:15

I think like anything, when we discover new information, there could be a thrill of learning something new, it can really help us in our self awareness. And I think oftentimes, then there's the temptation to kind of make that our dogma and we are x or this person is y and therefore we relate in that sort of a way. And I think what I'm hearing from you today, Kristina, is that the possibility that it doesn't have to be this fixed identity. But as we're engaging with personality information and types, there's this opportunity for us to explore, expand. Even if we've identified in a particular way, that possibly as we're maturing, those things can change. And I think immediately for me, what comes to mind with that is even when I take personality typing things, when I consider myself in different contexts, sometimes maybe at home, a particular part of my personality is coming out, where in a social setting, workplace, different things are being called upon for me. So I've definitely noticed that in my life, which I think is helpful. It shows me Okay, wow, that's interesting, at least, if nothing else.  There's some data that says, That's interesting that when I'm here, this part of me shines. And when I'm here, this part of me shines. So I think that's really interesting what you're bringing up today. 

Chris Roberts  03:30

Yeah, I find it to be fascinating. And the thing that comes to my mind is the idea of growth. When I think about how I want to land in life, it's always growing. And so this notion of our personalities not being fixed, lends itself to the possibility of growth. But I think something else that comes up for me is our cognitive development, our frontal cortex. And it hasn't fully developed. And I think, for me, I see certain people who have, probably, they're still kind of in the lower functions of their brain. And I think, Well, I wonder what it would take to get them into the frontal cortex? What experiences could cause them to grow to where they're using the frontal cortex? And how would that play into their decision making and how does it play into personality? Because I think another thing that comes up for me is we're this whole being, we're not just a body, we're not just a spirit, we're not just a soul.  There's this wholeness, all of me, that comes into this idea of growing.   I like to think about these different facets and the thing I am most hopeful about with this idea of personalities not being fixed is that there is hope for growth for the future.

Kristina Kaiser  05:10

Yes, I love what you're both saying, this notion of hope for growth, and maybe I'm tapping into different parts of who I am in different places. I was just in a conversation recently where they were talking about personalities, equal parts, how we were born, what we're being told, our environment, what we're learning, and then ourselves deciding, this is a huge thing. Because when I was first introduced to personalities, I feel like there was this idea of, oh, this is who you are. And then when people talked about it, they would name it as this is my type. This is the totality. And then there was only these little bits of hope, with a lot of emphasis on what about my type makes me bad? Even, you know, as opposed to what are these positive attributes that I could then go ahead and draw on over time? So I haven't loved this notion that maybe a personality becomes an excuse of oh, this part of me, that's just who I am. Because that's my personality, what can I do? Versus what you're talking about here, Oh, there's maybe that my brain ultimately likes to go to this one spot when I feel stressed out or whatever. But there is this opportunity for me to tap into something else to kind of draw from a deeper well within, and how do I cultivate that? 

Christina Roberts  06:40

That feels important to me, because as a child, I was extremely shy. And I think, being the youngest of five, I was able to be sheltered from having to confront my shyness, because I had older brothers and sisters that would do things for me and be the outgoing one, etc. And as I've gotten older, I've had to confront some of my shyness. Now, at the end of the day, my natural demeanor is quieter, I don't mind being in the background in group situations, that sort of thing. But I've also had to go to those edges and grow. And so I think even your point about an excuse, I could certainly have an excuse my whole life. I'm shy, I don't do those sorts of things. I'm an introvert.  Rather than yes, that is my natural demeanor and I've also learned skills, social skills, over the years that have helped me to engage with people. So I appreciate what you're naming. 

Chris Roberts  07:27

I’m also conscious of the fact that sometimes when we think about developing or we think about growth, we think about external things.  What external things will help me to grow?  What is Myers Briggs Personality Type or the Enneagram or what will help me grow? And I think sometimes there's this view that if we just find these external things, that will lead to the growth that I need. But I was just having a conversation with someone. If you're always looking for external things to make you happy, or to look to the next thing that never works.  To some degree, we have to find an internal peace, about who you are. And that's where true happiness comes from. It's going inward, not these external things that some of these personality types can give us as we think about growing.

Kristina Kaiser  08:26

Yeah, I wonder if there's a little bit of both/ and in there, right. So as we kind of look around, when I was an opera singer, we also were asked to listen to other people. So if you're a high soprano, you listen to other high sopranos. And the reason wasn't just to learn the music, so you didn't have to learn how to read music. It was to have an imagination for what a high note can do and what it can be. And so there was this research that suggested if you listened to more people singing high notes, you would have more imagination, you would sing high notes more freely. Now, again, lots and lots of factors, but it's interesting. And so, I've been in several circles lately, this woman, Ayo Yetunde, and I think she's living in the Chicago area now who does a lot around racial reconciliation, equality. And she talked a little bit about the extraordinary extrovert or extraordinary extrovert ism or something like this. It was all around this idea that I might be an introvert, right? So to like Christina's point, I might be shy, I might be more prone to being internal.  But something sparks from within, and causes me to say, like in this case, I'm going to promote what I believe and I'm going to rise up and there's different ways.  That wouldn't be my first choice but in this case, I feel compelled. I feel called. I feel this purpose and meaning and I do it anyway. Even though it's not my usual state.

Christina Roberts  10:03

I think this is helpful as well as how we interact with others. Because I think, again going back to our earlier point, sometimes there's that temptation when we are discovering about personality that we then put that on the other and assume that they are X, Y, or Z way. And I think, at least in my perspective, some of these contemplative practices that I've done, where I'm just holding space for someone and recognizing, okay, I can let go of my assumptions about this person. And sometimes there is a surprise in the way that they're reacting or responding. And so again, maybe I know them in a certain context with a certain personality expression. But then I see them over here. And it's like, wow, you're the same person but there's this whole other side of you that's coming through. I think that just speaks to the expansiveness, not only within ourselves, but in the ways that we're interacting with others in our lives.

Chris Roberts  10:53

Yeah, I like the idea of expansiveness. In fact, whenever you're first sharing that openness, it tends to decline as we mature, there's a part of me that resists that information. It's like, Well, I would hope that I would still continue to be open to others, and engage with others. And so I think openness is a high value of mine. But I also see the desire to interact with what I would call the corner dwellers, people that are on the extremes. I don't like openly seeking them out and saying, Hey, let's have a conversation. You're so far extreme, that maybe I can learn something from you. Not that I've written them off. But I think, well, they're going to have to go through their life lessons, too. And I feel like what life is for is to teach us and to cause us to grow. But I would hope that as I age, and as I mature that I continue to keep my openness to others.  And maybe by the word openness, maybe we have different definitions of what that is.  But that's one of the things that I think of as the hope that I would continue to be open to learning from everyone.  I tell my kids, you don't learn from people that are like you, that believe the same things that you do. You learn from those that are different and have different opinions. Those are your teachers in life.

Kristina Kaiser  12:29

Yeah, it's hard to say. I feel like self-awareness probably plays into it. And so there is this kind of observation with openness around the idea that people like having a smaller and smaller friend group.  But of course, other wisdoms suggest that being able to continue to make new friends becomes completely key in aging, which perhaps we've talked about in just a couple of podcasts ago when we talked about aging. Actually I learned something recently about Enneagram. So I've always heard of the gut/ heart/ mind triad. There are people that think with their mind, or they kind of interact in the world using thinking in their minds, and others kind of feel it instinctually in their bodies, and others are very emotional and connected that way. But it turns out there are other ways of connecting through a positive outlook, or do I become compliant in order to get what I want, or do I like to push through to get what I want?  And so there's different ways to group all of these things that make a difference to the Enneagram. If you're not familiar, it's like nine personalities. So oftentimes, it was like, these three, these three, these three, and you never saw anything else. But it turns out, there's other ways to group them. And so they all kind of fit together in these really interesting ways. But if you were to look at a diagram of the Enneagram, and put it flat on a table, it's kind of usually developed in a circle. And there's points around the circle that have various numbers. And some people have suggested that if you took it on a string and pulled it up, and it became like a cone, if you will, that all these personalities come closer and closer together as you head towards the top. And so there's this notion of being able to say sort of what that imaginative base that we were talking about before. Right now, let's say I'm going into an interview, I want to bring out my three, my performer, my achiever.  And at another time maybe we have to stand up for somebody because that wasn't right. And so I see that somebody is vulnerable, and I want to be a protector. And so I'm going to call on my inner eight, if you will. So it's not that we're necessarily an eight or three or whatever, like and we may still have these other tendencies. I mean, I identify as a three on the Enneagram. And I will find myself saying these really funny stereotypical three things about our image, which is very important to threes overall, and they just fly out of my mouth before I've even had a chance to think about them. That's kind of my natural tendency. But indeed, right, a lot of people struggle with personality tests, because they'll say, Well, I tested one time and I was this and I tested another time when I was that.  Maybe, Christina,  what you're talking about, because my work personality looks a little different than my home personality. When I was in this job, I functioned this way in the world. And when I was in this job, I functioned that way. So people don't throw their hands up. They're like, I don't know what to do with any of this. But in fact, maybe what we're doing is sort of calling on that inner aspect. Because we've seen it modeled somewhere, we know how to do it, and others of them, maybe we're like, allergic to them, right? Like, we never want to do that. But as we grow, can we call on many aspects as they are needed? Is that part of the experience of maturing?

Christina Roberts  15:59

I think going along with that when we are aware and tapping into different aspects of personality, I think that's when we're maybe interested in engaging in new spiritual practices. Maybe these particular practices nourished a particular part of my personality. And as I'm in different contexts or around different people, I'm recognizing that those practices actually aren't what I need. And there's some new ones. So I see such relevance.

Kristina Kaiser  16:21

Yes, I'm totally with you. I feel like spiritual practices then play a huge role in terms of developing and also getting what we need.  Thank you so much for opening this conversation up a little bit. Hopefully, all of these things will continue to emerge and develop over time.

Kristina Kaiser  16:53

And now is the time in our podcast where we take a moment to talk about what we are into. So tell me, what are you into lately?

Christina Roberts  17:02

It is ice tea season and I am into different flavored iced teas. And kudos to my husband. He is the iced tea maker in our household. And so we enjoyed some delicious peach tea last night. He made a fun mint tea. And I like warm teas in the winter months. And I'm just excited about all these new iced teas that we're going to be experiencing for the summer. So I am very much into ice tea. 

Chris Roberts  17:26

Well, I don't know that I'm in the ice tea even though I make it. I don't think I'm making my choice. I think I make it because everyone else screws it up. But iced tea is great. I think one of the things that I'm into, and not by choice, but it's more in my mind is I've sort of become the neighborhood bike mechanic. So all the kids bring their bikes and say, I don't think my seat is high enough. Can you help me fix my seat? Do you have an allen wrench? Do you even know what an allen wrenches are? So I've been doing a lot of bike repair, airing up tires, checking out holes and tires and all sorts of fun things. Which has been great because it's been a way for me to connect with the neighborhood kids and see how they also interact with my children whenever they think I'm not paying attention, because I'm doing some sort of repair. So I'm into bike repair and being a voyeur into my children's life.

Kristina Kaiser  18:27

It sounds like summer is upon us right now with ice tea and bike repair after a winter of growth and now we're just getting on our bikes again. I think similarly, we have been into using our smoker more. And so just to say if you're not a meat eater, smoked tempeh is my favorite way to have tempeh. But we have really enjoyed putting all sorts of things into the smoker and coming out with this yummy deliciousness. So that's what we're into. 

Well thank you everyone for being with us. If you would like more information or like to see what else we are up to or would like to subscribe to our newsletter you're welcome to head over to foundrysc.com for more information. Thanks so much. We will see you again soon.