Ep 77 Making Space for One Another in Our Ordinary Lives

Today we talk about the spiritual practice of paying attention to the people around us, making space in our days for each other, and being willing to be interrupted. For some of us, this comes naturally while for others, we may need to schedule it in to our days. But the delight and the closeness we can experience by living in to the present moment is worth it. Join us in seeing the person in front of us with full attention. 

 Additional Resources:
Quote: Meister Eckhart: The most important hour is always the present…
Book: Low-FODMAP IBS Solution Plan and Cookbook by Dr. Rachel Pauls 

#Noticing
#PayingAttention
#Connection
#Awareness 

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Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
spaciousness, noticing, attentiveness, margin, neighbors

Dominic Kaiser  00:06
Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens.

 I'm Christina Roberts.
I'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser.  We're glad you joined us. 

Chris Roberts  00:24

Hello, it is great to be with you. Today we want to talk about making space for people in our ordinary lives. And this is something that I think many of us probably would like to do more of. It can be as simple as, whenever you're taking a walk, noticing a neighbor and being able to have enough spaciousness in your calendar that you can stop and chat for a little bit. And to be connected to people who you run into ordinarily. And so as I bring up this topic of making space for people in our ordinary lives, what comes up for the two of you?

Christina Roberts  01:06

In my life, I've noticed that this practice of paying attention and it's specifically when I'm walking in nature, paying attention to flowers, birds, etc. I think it's opened me up to pay more attention to people. And so with that, when I'm doing errands, I notice, oh, the cashier's name tag says, Judy, so I can say Hi, Judy. Thanks, Judy.  Acknowledging their name.  If I'm running across someone that has really cute earrings, hey, waitress named whoever, I really like your earrings. And just that simple act of kindness, expansiveness, of noticing, being aware not only of my surroundings in nature, but people. Boy, it just makes life so much richer. And so I really liked the fact that these practices that we're describing, really can be integrated in some of the most mundane things that we experience. And again, it's not like earth shattering that I told Judy, hi, or thanked her by name. But I think it's those little things that make the day a little bit richer, and remind me that these are actual people in front of me, not just a cog in the machine to get me to point A to point B.

Kristina Kaiser  02:09

I agree. And I think this is a skill in a way that has developed more and more, the older I get.  I think when I was young, I felt super embarrassed about interacting with people. My mother would really interact with people. And she would even kind of reach out and laugh and kind of push them a little bit. And I used to think, oh my gosh, she pushed that person. And so I just thought, not me, I'm not going to do that kind of stuff. And then I found myself doing the exact same thing to people, as I started to get older, and then realizing I enjoyed connection. But it's not just like, oh, somehow born and innate. It's this kind of recognizing how much more meaningful it is when I'm operating in the world as if everyone is us. Right? There's this connecting aspect. We are all people. And hearing your story is somehow delightful to feel like this has developed and become stronger even as time has gone on.

Christina Roberts  03:16

Yeah, I want to just build off of that. And to clarify, I am a very high introvert. So this does not come naturally to me. I like staying in my own corner, doing my thing. I'm also a pretty efficient person. And so I remember years ago reading in the Bible where Paul says greet so and so, or greet this person or greet one another with a holy kiss and really feeling like wow, I can go I can go into a room or a situation and not greet people. Even in work situations, I would just kind of go to my office and do my thing. And so I appreciate that you are naming this a skill that is practice can be learned we can grow in. It doesn't necessarily have to be our natural go to.

Chris Roberts  03:53

Yeah, I like what both of you are naming. One I think is an awareness piece of those around us. And I think the second thing that I'm hearing is a connectedness to all of life. And I think a story that comes up for me, well is that I really like making space for people in my ordinary life. I'm an adventurous person. So I've always sort of made room for this in my schedule, to be present to people and to ask people questions. But I think like you're saying,  this is a skill that we can grow into. And specifically, I feel like I've grown into more awareness and more connectedness to people over the past couple of years. And going back to the example, I was dropping some tables off for a contemplative event that we're going to be having here in the future. And I was putting the tables where they needed to go and I ran into the person who was cleaning the building. And we got to chat a little bit and just make conversation. But we both started talking about our children. And it turned funny really quickly.  We both have teenage girls. Both of us rolled our eyes and talked about the drama that can be around teenage girls, and fighting and arguing.  So we were talking about that. And he said I have a quick story. And he started sharing that he had an older daughter, who actually died a few years back. And he was talking about just all the circumstances, but what it boiled down to is, yes, my two girls that I have now, they have drama. And sometimes life can be hectic and crazy. But you know what, they're still with me. And I would trade anything, I would trade drama, I would trade hecticness, chaos, loud volumes, at all hours of the day. I would gladly take those things, and be able to have them then to not have them. And I thought, wow, thank you so much.  You don't really talk about stuff like that with people that you come across. Just hey, how's it going? And so  I felt like having spaciousness to allow a conversation to happen between me and this person who was cleaning. It's like, I do have some challenges with my kids, but he's right.  I'm connected to him and I'm connected to a story. And I have more gratitude and more patience for some of the things that are coming up in my own children's lives.

Kristina Kaiser  07:05

That's a big story. And there is just so much gravity to it. And yet, I also appreciate kind of how it comes about this notion of, if you just make a little bit of space, the reality is, we all have stories.  We all have this life that we're living, and a little bit of space, it doesn't take very much for those stories to come out, which is so remarkable. I've sometimes just been with people with a little bit of vulnerability on our part, a little bit of opening. And people go, Oh, this is what we're doing. And I remember one time I was in a social experience, and the person is probably like, 30 years older than me. So I was still in an age where age mattered. I think the older you get, age becomes a little bit more fuzzy about how far apart  matters.  When you are a kid, six months, and you are so much older.  To them you are winning.   But then you get older and things change. And this woman who was probably several decades older than me was like, I don't know why I just told you that. I never talked to anybody like this. I think that is sort of how it works.  If we are just a little bit kind, if we just notice, like Christina, you were saying, noticing the name of somebody at the grocery store, a little bit of life comes out. You find out that they have a family and they have kids, they're not just a checker behind a conveyor belt, if you will. 

Chris Roberts  08:36

And I think one of the things that I hear us saying is developing an attentiveness. So when we're in the presence of others, we can have a spaciousness if we have room for the ability to be present to someone in the very moment that we're in. And there's a saying, I forget how it goes, but it's like, “The most important time is now and the most important person is the one that's right in front of you.”  And that's so challenging to actually live and walk out because we've got lists going in our head, we've got things that need to get done. And sometimes our attentiveness is pointing toward those things. Our eyes are wandering when we're in conversations with people, and people pick up on those cues.  Those social cues of Oh, this person needs to go. Or they don't pick up on the queue and you have to extract yourself. I think just that awareness piece of this person is in front of me. This person has a beautiful story if I can just listen and be present to their story.

Christina Roberts  10:04

Another thing that comes up for me is this idea of being willing to be interrupted.  I spend a lot of time at a local monastery and the way that they track their time is through bells. At the hour mark, whatever time it is, at the half hour mark, there's one bell. Then twice a day where they have communal prayer, it's a really loud ringing of the bells.  When you hear the bell, you are encouraged or instructed to stop whatever you're doing. So if you're working in the garden, or whatever it is, you stop what you're doing. You don't try to squeeze more in.  Then you go to the communal prayer, and then a meal is after that. And there's something about that practice in the old monastic days of the bell saying, okay, now's the time to attend to this other thing.  We don't have that in our modern world. But gosh, I get interrupted all the time. And, you know, I think that there's a different posture that we can hold.  I've got this to-do list to get done, or I've got to get these three things before I do this next thing, rather than okay, I'm interrupted by this person who has a story to share. You know, Chris, you were just trying to set up tables and get out of there. I'm sure you had other things to do that day. But you made time for this person. And to your point, it was a heavier story. So it's not like you're just going to be like, Okay, thanks, bye.  You are sitting in it and letting that story linger a little bit with this human being. And so I think that's something that comes up for me is this willingness to allow interruptions in my life and to be flexible in choosing relationships over tasks. And obviously, there's certain things that have to get done. If you have to pick up your kid from school by a certain time, etc.  I'm not advocating for irresponsibility.  But I do think that there's a lot of room, at least in my own life, where I can flex out a little bit to allow for more spaciousness.

Kristina Kaiser  11:46

No, yeah, that interruptibility aspect. Just this morning, the morning routine is intense. And the little one was like, I want to snuggle-hug. Okay, time so for a snuggle hug, because it's not that much time, really. And it makes a big difference. But it can feel like we gotta move, gotta move, we gotta move. And, and not just with them, I'll feel that way through anything. If you know, I have admin work to get done, but I also do connecting work with people. And if someone suddenly connects, and we weren't planning on that, I might really get sucked into whatever they're doing, and then turn back and think, oh, man, all this actual work as if the people were not actual work. It's been this whole process my entire life, of realizing that in reality, I choose the people, but I'm always feeling irresponsible sometimes for choosing the people. So there is sort of that internal struggle that's at least worth being aware of.

Christina Roberts  12:53

And I think that's very culturally driven. And of course, also personality driven. Chris, to your point for years, you've practiced margin and spaciousness. And so it is not a big deal for you to not like to-do lists.  You'd much rather be with the person and let things evolve.  I think, personality wise, but culturally speaking, too, I think there's this pressure in the US of What did you do today? The utilitarian aspect of our society.  And so I think the ability to say yep, I just spent time. Chris, your story was beautiful. But sometimes we have a conversation and it's not some big spiritual moment. But we did hear about the person's hunting trip or bingo game that they did, or whatever it was.  And that's important as well.  It doesn't have to lead to  a big God moment, either. So I think that's important to name.

Chris Roberts  13:40

Yeah, I agree. I think it's important to name and I think it's important to teach this to younger generations as well. And I think one of the ways that I'm conscious of doing that is at school. When I go to pick up my kids, I don't sit in my car.  I get out of my car and I stand next to the other parents that have just anticipation on their face waiting to see their kids come out. And that's a time of my day, every day that I know I want to be there. And so I've developed an attentiveness to the parents that are waiting there for their kids. And my son, Sean, loves being the first one out the school door and the first one that to spot 1. He has to go to spot one and other kids have to go to spot 4 and he's always the first one. But one of the things that I really appreciate about just being spacious is every day, he's the first one and he always waits until we have another friend and he pounds it with a dad. And he waits on his little friend that's not even in his class, but this is the only connection point in a day that he has with his little friend. And his friend is often the last one there. And so when you just sit there, and he waits for that pound, and then we walk our cars together. And we talk about grilling, barbecue, days off, we talk about things like that. But it allows for a connectedness to individuals in our community that I don't think we would normally have if we didn't have that meet up at the end of the day at school. And so, I've really enjoyed being able to have a spaciousness, and teach spaciousness to my kids. I think that's super important.

Christina Roberts  15:44

And I appreciate that there's something built into your schedule. And I think in my life, too, I don't do as well with spontaneity. I'm trying to be more open to interruptions. But there are parts of my day where I specifically, most days of the week, do not schedule something in the afternoon when the kids come home from school.  They have a snack, there's like a 20-minute window where you just get all the good stories when they're walking in the door and they're hungry.  And then they go on their way. And I can go on my way. And so I've built that into my schedule where there's certain times of the day where I don't have any work because I want to be super present. And that's a really sacred time to me. Other people, maybe it's morning hours or evening hours. I heard once about a professor too, that specifically would walk from one end of campus to the next. He would allow himself 20 minutes to walk to his classroom, because he wanted to be able to bump into students along the way. And so there was this, whatever class in his schedule he had that margin to do. And he was very specific and intentional around that. And so I do think that there can be some intentionality to our margin that maybe again, I think fits my personality type a little bit better.

Kristina Kaiser  16:51

Yeah, I think I have to similarly build things to avoid the stress. But then, I guess there are the moments that come out of nowhere. Chris, as you're sharing your story, last night, I dropped one child off for a choir concert. I showed up there crazy early before the concert. And I was waiting at this intersection. And this father was coming with his little daughter who's on a bicycle with the training wheels. And he's making sure that I'm gonna stay put. And so I wave that I'm definitely staying put. And this little girl looks me directly in the eye as she rolls by with this little smile on her face. Like she was so excited and proud to be outside. And I left that moment and for several blocks, I was still probably in this dopamine experience, right? Where this little girl and I had made this eye-to-eye connection.  Do you see what I'm doing right now? And it's like, Yes, I do. I see what you're doing. And so these kinds of nowhere, you didn't know they were coming at all. And they're just delightful.

Chris Roberts  17:56

Yeah, appreciate the two stories that you guys have looked at making space. It's funny, the intense intentionality part that you guys have that you make space. In fact, if you were to look at Christina and I's calendar, you know, we could be working the same time, the same day, and meet, you know, probably the same amount of people. But if you look at the margin, you know, between my next meeting and her next meeting, you know, I have about 15 minutes extra time built into my schedule just because I probably need more time. And so I think looking at your personality, looking at your tendency to get into conversations in the first place, and then just making room for ordinary things to happen in our lives. What a fun conversation. Thank you so much.

Chris Roberts  18:58

We're moving on to the next part of our podcast where we talk about what we are into. What are we into today?

Kristina Kaiser  19:04

Well, you know how sometimes we're into things because we're forced into them. In this case, we have a child who needs to be on a low FODMAP diet for a few weeks so we can figure out what irritates the stomach. And, I initially got this sheet and it was like the foods you can have and the foods you can't have. And I sat there trying to formulate a menu and I thought no way.  I'm not like forming a menu based on what I can and cannot have. This is going to be just as fun as any other time. So we bought a cookbook. I did a little bit of research and they said, this is the best cookbook. I thought it was perfect. You have a lot of experience. We got the cookbook and we're perusing through it together and we're going to make a menu and no quality of life will be lost from being on a low FODMAP diet. That is going to be the deal.

Christina Roberts  20:00

I love how you're weaving fun into it. What's the word FODMAP

Kristina Kaiser  20:04

FODMAP F-O-D as in David, map

Christina Roberts  20:08

Okay, fodmap.  I love it. I'm learning new words. Well, I am into lakes. We live by a couple of lakes. And I have just really been appreciating the differences between the lakes near us. We have some smaller lakes, one particular lake where kayaking is available. We're leaving tomorrow for vacation and will be around some different types of lakes. And so I've just really been appreciating the differences of lakes and the beauty and the calmness and the stillness, as well as the adventure and fun that lakes have to offer.

Chris Roberts  20:39

Nice. I think similar to our topic today, and some of the things that we've brought forth, spaciousness and awareness. I just discovered that the smell of rain has a specific name. Petrichor is the name of the smell of rain. And it's been raining a lot, kind of off and on. And so one of the things that I've been sort of setting my attention to, is this idea of smelling the rain, right before it comes. So I've been into Petrichor. 

Well, thank you so much for the awesome conversation. And as you may have picked up on, we very much value community and relationship here at the contemplative life. And so we'd love it, if you had a moment to drop us a line. Maybe tell us where you're listening from or even let us know if you have questions or topics you'd like to see addressed here on the podcast. You can find all of our contact information on our website, thecontemplativelife.net. Until next time, make it a great week.