Ep 75 Grief

Grief is a universal experience. And yet, how it manifests, what we need in that time, and how long it takes to work out our grief will vary from situation to situation and from person to person. We’ll also talk today about how residual grief can affect our present griefs. We’ll embrace the importance of naming our grief. And we’ll close by taking a moment to honor even this part of who we are and how we experience life. We hope you’ll join us. 

 #NamingGrief
#StagesOfGrief
#Loss
#SafeSpaces 

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Transcript

 SUMMARY KEYWORDS
grief, loss, emotion, grieving, covid

Dominic Kaiser  00:06
Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens. 

I'm Christina Roberts.
I'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser.  We're glad you joined us. 

Christina Roberts  00:23

Hello, it's great to be with you. Today we're going to talk about the topic of grief. And we recognize that grief is one of those universal experiences that we all have in our lives. And at some point, we will be affected by grief. And I think it's important to name that we want to be very broad in our topic of grief today and recognize that there's maybe some smaller grief that we may experience and then some very dramatic grief that maybe some of us are walking through. I think that there's situational grief, so perhaps moving, divorce, even graduation. That's a celebratory thing but there's grief because you're letting go of high school and going on to a new thing. Of course, there's things like trauma and war, some of those situations that we have that cause grief.  And then actually the death of someone that is very dear to us. And so, as we're talking about grief today, we want to give room for all the different types and variations and different ways in which we each have experienced grief, and to allow room and space to name that. So I'm curious what comes up for the two of you as we think about grief and how contemplative life intersects with that.

Kristina Kaiser  01:26

I appreciate the broad scope of types of grief as we walk into the conversation, just to kind of give voice to all of the ways that we can feel this. And even as you're talking, I'm reminded, just a couple of weeks ago, we had a child go through a minor surgical procedure. And I thought for sure, I had no residual emotional struggle from previous surgeries I had taken my children through.  But anytime I tried to make a menu or think about that day, I found myself getting teary and anxious and realizing that this is a memory. This is not about this moment. It’s about what happened several years back with a different surgery. I had to keep bringing myself back. This is not that this is the present moment. This is not what was and it was not an easy journey all the way through. 

Chris Roberts  02:26

I like that we've named that grief can be very broad. And I think my recent experience with grief is, like you mentioned, grief is like something that every human experiences. And sometimes that's hard to identify.   I think sometimes it comes out sideways, like it could come out in anger or it could come out as escapism.  Let's not deal with it, let's not name it, let's just pretend that this transition that just happened, that I'm fine with it.  I can move on. I don't need to say or grieve what I lost in this circumstance or the situation. And I came in contact with a neighbor who was experiencing grief. And she was in sort of this denial.  This emotion of grief about the change of the neighborhood was coming out in anger. And so I think just being able to talk to her and say, What is it that you missed and really getting her to name? It's this. And I think naming is super important. Whenever it comes to identifying grief, what is it that you're grieving? What is it that you feel like you've lost? So I really appreciate that we've brought up multiple facets of grief. And so this is the small spectrum of grief that I've recently come into contact with. 

Christina Roberts  03:54

And even mentioning that this particular situation with the surgery reminded you of another surgery and some situations that you had walked through. I think that's also something with grief. When a new grief comes to us, we not only have the present grief that we're facing, but also the history of the grief that has been with us too. And the opportunity of okay, I'm a different person now. And how do I take in this grief and process this grief? It reminds me of those Russian nesting dolls where you have the little doll and the bigger dolls that keep encompassing the other one.  I experienced this when my mother passed away when I was 11. And then later on in life, I nannied for a family whose mother died. And being in that situation as a nanny and watching some of their grief unfold and some of those really tender first months of the loss brought me back to my childhood. But I was an adult at that point. I was seeing it from a different vantage. And so it was kind of this beautiful redemptive thing for me where I was able to name some of the grief that I was currently walking through with this family while also remembering some of the grief from my childhood.  This healing and this hope and recognizing, I've seen how I've come through and almost being able to give that hope and that perspective to this family that you will also make it through. And there will be people on the journey with you. And so I think that that's a really interesting dynamic. 

Kristina Kaiser  05:15

It even occurs to me as you're talking that these are big moments in grief, such big moments. And even as you're talking about the death of a loved one often comes with a bunch of stuff that you're supposed to get done, in the middle of having this strong emotion that your heart is on fire. And we moved a couple years ago, and my heart was on fire. As excited as we were, in order to make this change, there was so much to be done, and there was loss involved. And we were going to have to like work in a new way. And I'm just reminded that we don't all deal with all that stuff that has to get done in the same way. And that kind of has to be okay, some of us are going to really dive into that work and use it. And some people need somebody else to do the work, they just need someone else to be their companion, to be there with them. Just kind of making space for whatever our body is doing. I realized once we got to our new destination, I noticed for a while we slept long. Now we get up at like 5:45 but we were sleeping at eight in the morning. It was long, our bodies were tired. And I thought, Will this ever end? Will I ever not feel so tired? And of course, eventually, I didn't feel that tired. But it took a while.

Christina Roberts  06:39

And I think it's important to acknowledge that our grief isn't linear. And there's seasons where maybe the grief is a little bit more intense that we have to walk through. But also that there are different ways in which our personalities or energies are engaged with grief. For some, putting our hands to something. Sometimes when there's a loss, maybe you're then building a scrapbook.  I graduated, I'm leaving these people and so I'm going to make a scrapbook as a way to channel the good and the memories and to celebrate what was while I'm having to let go of that part of my life right now. And that grief, sometimes for people, it's maybe going to a support group and having opportunities to connect with others and to share your story. And through that talking, and maybe some therapy, that helps us to work things out. For some people maybe a loved one died and you're doing a race for their cause.  Maybe they died of a particular disease and so every year, you're going to rally together and get donations and channel that in memory of them. And so I think it's interesting to name the different ways in which we bear that in our bodies. And so sometimes it is maybe sleeping, sometimes it can be more of a “productive thing”. And sometimes it's more of a relaxed, passive type thing that we need.

Chris Roberts  07:54

I appreciate you naming those things. I recall, whenever we were, Christina Roberts and myself were grieving infertility.  I wanted to be outside in the shed and making something, doing some woodworking. I wanted to be alone, in solitude. And I also wanted to be doing something productive. But that wasn't necessarily the same need that you had Christina. You wanted to process and talk through some things. And I think finding that balance of what works for people who are grieving in the same situation, identifying what is the best way to grieve for yourself. So I appreciate you naming that.

Kristina Kaiser  08:45

I think Chris, you had brought up before someone being in denial, or there are these kinds of aspects to have. And my husband and I both repress emotions. And we're very compatible when something horrible happens. But it really made other people uncomfortable in our lives that we had some real sorrow and I wanted to get back to work as soon as possible. And people were like, What are you doing here?  And I just felt like I could be on my couch crying, which is going to take me deeper into that emotion, which was something I was really struggling with wanting to do. Or I could go to work and feel productive and like a person. And I want to feel like a person. And so I'm here, which is kind of like code for “leave me alone”. But on the other hand, it would come out while I was driving.  I would listen to music and it would all just kind of come out. I wanted to process emotions by myself in a way that was too deep. They were too emotional and I just didn't want to do that with everybody. And so there is this not specifically denial, but there's this kind emotion of moving away from the people a little bit in order to have my own process.

Christina Roberts  10:05

And I think it's important to mention that the reason that grief touches us so deeply is because there's love.  There's a paradox of grief. And I appreciate even in the scriptures, it talks about, “Those who sow in tears shall reap in joy”. Or there's a paradox between mourning and dancing. And I think we feel these very, very deep emotions of love for someone or for something or for an experience. And then when we have to let that go, that grief matches.  Because I care so deeply about this, this is why I'm experiencing the grief and the loss in this moment.  If we didn't care, we wouldn't have that.  And so even the fact that crying is a motion, that it's a physical thing that we do. And to contrast that with laughing.  I think in Ecclesiastes, it says that and there's the opposite of that. And in Greek culture, when someone dies, in particular, you wear black for a period of time. And so I remember one of my aunts had a loss. And wore black beyond the length that widows typically wear black.  She wore black for years. And then when my cousin got married, that was the first time that she had worn a colored dress, and she danced at the wedding. And it was just this beautiful, sort of emerging from her grief into this new season of freedom and love and celebration. And it was just such a contrast. And again, I appreciate that even in the scriptures, it names those paradoxes of why this matters and how we relate to it. 

Kristina Kaiser  11:31

I feel like what you're putting out there too, is that seasons of grief are not defined, right? So even if the standard period that was allotted to you was one year, it can take longer. And that has to be part of our story. In fact, I was reading something recently about this grief, it transforms but we take it with us. It is a part of us, which I think we're already naming in so many ways, today.  But it is important to keep that in mind. You're not trying to get over your grief, if you will, but it's going to come with that experience with that person, that relationship is going to come with you too.

Chris Roberts  12:09

Yeah, I really enjoy demolition whenever I'm in grief, right? A sledgehammer and tearing up something. You know, it's productive, but it's also like getting out some of your angst. I also feel like I'm identifying with my inner teenager.  Some people like music, like heavy metal music or some music, some angsty music whenever they're mourning something. So yeah, totally identify. 

Christina Roberts  12:38

I think it's important to name too even as we're recording this podcast, we have walked through two years of COVID. And I think during that time there's been a lot of collective loss, of course, in lives that were lost with COVID, in time off of work. Financial loss, health loss, educational losses, job, all the things.  And I think I'm noticing too collectively, where have we gone with that grief? And can we bring that to safe spaces where we can process through that and name that and not feel ashamed?  I feel a loss that at the beginning of COVID, I was feeling this and now I'm feeling this and being able to identify some of that, and not to feel like, Well, we should be over it now. And we've got vaccines and people are doing more work, I think a lot of this is we've maybe had to be in survival mode and stuffed some of this down. And I'm noticing some of that emerging too. And so again, not to be ashamed of our grief, or to have to qualify our grief.  I shouldn't be experiencing this because there's people right now in the Ukraine that are dying. That is true. And that is awful. And that is traumatic. And also whatever you're experiencing, maybe you had a job loss or you're grieving because your child didn't get to experience a milestone or there's education loss, whatever it is.  All of it matters. And there's space for all of it.

Chris Roberts  13:51

I appreciate you naming that. Safe spaces are super important. And I feel like there's not a whole lot of opportunity. There's not a whole lot of locales or places where people can experience a place because of the expectations of others to just get over it and move on. I don't want to. I'm dealing with my own grief. I don't want to hear your grief. And so, yeah, I think it's super important for people to find safe spaces.

Kristina Kaiser  14:19

I think so too, because we are again, just as unique individuals.  Each of us made and all these wonderful ways and many sides of who we are many facets to our personalities. And I heard a talk recently and the woman was talking about some traumatic things that had happened in her life and how for a while there was this sort of archetype kind of conversation and kind of aspect of who I was.  Eventually what she called the wise woman emerged. The wise person emerges, but in the middle of that there might be the sledgehammer. There may be these different aspects of who we are. We might want to curl up for a while, we might want to kind of lash out for a while. And then eventually this inner wisdom, this inner light, something else emerges. But that's who we are, we are multifaceted, we have many sides to our personality and to honor that each of those has meaning and purpose is kind of important.

Christina Roberts  15:26

Well thank you both for this safe space to be able to name and to honor some of the grief that we've walked through.

Christina Roberts  15:37

And now is the part of our podcasts where we talk about what we are into this week. So what are we into.

Kristina Kaiser  15:43

Well, I think this is definitely a result of being middle aged, but I'm into my rain barrel and watering the garden from water that just came from this.  I don't know if I shared this at some point or not, but we had picked up a used rain barrel and just randomly drove by it late last year in the season for like 15 bucks. And so we've kind of gotten used to using it, but now we're ready. It's the beginning of a new season and we go out and it drops down into the watering can and the beauty of the stream that comes out of the watering can is so much better than the hose. So just living into that on those days.

Chris Roberts  16:24

Well I have been into the banjo and Beatles tunes. I've been playing some Beatles tunes and I'm currently learning Blackbird on the banjo and it has a very fun sound. So I'm into Banjo, Beatles Tunes, Blackbird.

Christina Roberts  16:43

Lots of “b”s.  I love it. Well, I am into flossing. This is something that I should have been into before now. But I've been a very sporadic flosser and I'm really trying to up my game. So I am embracing flossing and I'm excited to go back to the dentist in six months and see what kind of progress.  I want to have my dental hygienist excited and thrilled for me.  So I am into flossing. 

Well thank you so much for joining. As always, we invite you to check out our website for more resources. And again as we're kind of naming grief if it would be helpful to have a sample spiritual direction session, we would love to connect in that way. So feel free to reach out at info@thecontemplativelife.net.   Until next time, make it a great week. Take care.