Ep 70 Poetry and the Contemplative Life

Poetry can sometimes feel like an acquired taste, like maybe you either love it or you don’t. But what many of us find as we pursue a contemplative life is that poetry can become a helpful way to slow down and take a nice, long look. We sometimes find that poetry becomes a doorway to being able to drink in that present moment. So join us as we talk about the power of poems to aid our engagement of the world around us using our senses, emotions, and intuitions.

 Additional Resources
Book: Where the Sidewalk Ends by Shel Silverstein
Book: The Amateur Contemplative by Li-Young Lee
Book: Susceptible to Light by Chelan Harkin 

#Poetry
#Haiku
#Emotions
#Feelings

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Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
poetry, contemplative poem, lyrics, songs, noticing

Dominic Kaiser  00:06

Welcome to The Contemplative Life:  Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens.

 I'm Christina Roberts.
'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser.  We're glad you joined us.

Chris Roberts  00:24

Well, hello, it's great to be with you. Today we're talking about poetry and the contemplative life. And I, for one, have to say I don't have a very good starting place with poetry. My introduction to poetry, like most people, is archaic poetry that they make you learn in school. And so the poetry that was presented to me at an early age, I had a pretty strong reaction to it, and maybe even an allergic reaction to it. And I probably didn't want anything to do with poetry because of my early exposure. But in the more recent years, I've come to love poetry because of a few people introducing it to me, particularly as it relates to contemplation. And one of the things that I really appreciate about poetry is its invitation to take a long look at something.  Someone who's written something they usually thought about for a long while. And then they put it in a very short, powerful sentence statement, rhyme meter, all that. And so I thought I would open up today to talk about poetry and how it relates to the contemplative. So why do we think?

Kristina Kaiser  01:48

I am so excited to talk about poetry, but I have to confess, I did not relate to poetry for years and years and years.  There was a brief period in high school where I was going through a sad phase in life where I really loved poetry.  I love to write it, I love to get my emotions out that way. And then I exited my sad face and I didn't know what to do with poetry if I wasn't going to be sad. But then I think the biggest problem was I didn't know any authors that were really grabbing me. So if I just Googled poems,  Oh, maybe I would like to use a poem, I couldn't just find something randomly top of mind that really worked. And then cut to a year ago, I met all these amazing people who were super into poetry. And they kept reading them at gatherings. And so every time they would share a poem, I would take the title of the book that they were reading from down and I started gathering poetry books.  Then I started taking them with me in the car and reading them places, and they would make me burst out laughing or make me think in these profound ways. And I have recently really enjoyed the metaphor aspect of poetry, like it just opens up worlds and process and thought.

Christina Roberts  03:11

It's interesting hearing the both of you reflect on your history with poems.  As I'm listening to you, I'm reminded of my fourth-grade teacher who introduced the class to Shel Silverstein, Where the Sidewalk Ends.  I loved that poetry book, I would read it over and over again. And she was very animated, we would have special times where she would read poetry to the class. So that was probably my first introduction to poetry. And then luckily, I had a high school teacher and when we had to do Beowulf, she was also very animated and into it. So interestingly enough, I had some positive exposure to poetry. But then in college, I had to take a poetry class because I needed this particular credit and that was the only time that worked. And to your point, Chris, I both struggled and appreciated the potency of words, and that you were only allowed to use so many words to express yourself and just really realize, well, this is an art, it's a craft. There's something very profound about that. And I know we're talking about poems, but of course, song lyrics would fall into that category, too. And all of us, I think, on this podcast, and those that are listening, we appreciate people that can put into lyrics, emotions, things that we're feeling and experiencing. And so, I think, to your points as well, I think my appreciation of poetry has certainly expanded over the years.

Chris Roberts  04:25

Yes, I love that point that you bring up. Christina Roberts. You know, in fact, if you listen to our podcasts, or you listen to it a number of times, I often start the phrase, “I think”, and that's how I would start off whatever it is that I'm going to say. And that's what I love about poetry because it is an invitation to feel. Whenever I read these words, it gets me out of my head and it gets me from thinking into feeling. And that's what I really love about poetry.  It invites me to experience it in a different way, not necessarily so much in my head, but more inside of me in my heart. And it just elicits a different response for me. So that's what I appreciate about poetry.

Christina Roberts  05:18

And maybe building off of that I think something about poems is that we can go back to them over and over again. So I'll probably read a book once unless it's like an amazing book, or an article, things like that. But poetry, song lyrics, you go back to it over and over again. And there's something about it kind of going deep into you, and you feel it deep in your bones, if you will. And I think even in the contemplative ways in which we approach poetry, whether I'm reading it personally or with a group, often there's a slowing down, there's a really reflecting on.  We use the phrase, what shimmers as you read this? And so often there might be one phrase, there might even just be one word that really grabs you.  Being able to sit with that one word, and how is that word really resonating deeper within my spirit, with what I'm feeling.  I can go back to that same poem 3, 6, 9 months later, and a different word, sure enough, is going to shimmer to me because of the beauty of that particular art form. So I think the deepening really resonates with me.

Kristina Kaiser  06:12

Yeah, I think so too. There's this creativity, that kind of comes out of it. And a friend of mine recently shared, I was so excited, I definitely want to try this. She said she had a haiku birthday party. As it turns out, haikus are easy enough. five syllables, seven syllables, five syllables, it's all those are the rules. That's it. And so each person would put the first line on a piece of paper and then all the papers went into the middle of the room. And then everybody took a different piece of paper and would do the next line and then put it down. And so we'd go around three times and then these poems came out. And her reflection was, these were so beautiful.  None of us would have necessarily come up with that exact thing, but because we collaborated and did it together, this is what happened.  We had this thing to share at the end and birthdays, I mean, what a great way to engage and celebrate. And so she's a haiku Master. I feel like she'll just write a haiku every day, which has not been my story, but she might help me make that become my story in some way. So it can be collaborative, it can be individual, just so many fun ways to use poetry, it turns out.

Chris Roberts  07:28

And I love that we're looping poetry into the contemplative because I think, for me, being contemplative poetry is a huge part of that process for me. And one of my favorite poets is Lee Jung Lee, a very serious poet.  When I tend to be in a contemplative mode and I tend to be more serious, he has a poem called, The Amateur Contemplative. I believe, is a poem. He talks about someone going on this retreat, who their goal is, to have a little bit of time and space but they're reading from their iPad, and all the things that true contemplatives would tell you, you don't need anything.  It's a minimalist experience. And this person has iPads and phones and everything. And then at the end, it says, And a donkey for all your shit. The title of the poem is, “An Amateur Contemplative,” that's just an invitation not to take yourself too seriously.  This is a learning process, being contemplative. There's some that say, you have to do it this way, you have to do it that way. And I think you can try this, you can try a little of everything to see what works for you as an individual. But don't take yourself too seriously. Because you've got to enjoy it along the way. So that's one of the things I appreciate about contemplative and poetry.

Christina Roberts  09:01

Thinking about how many people in the Bible really enjoy the Psalms. That always tends to be a favorite for people. And one of the things that I appreciate about the Psalms is giving language to such a wide variety of emotions. And sometimes the language is uncomfortable, when the poet is getting in touch with deep feelings of anger and distress and lament, those are uncomfortable emotions that they're naming. Or this desire, this jealousy and revenge, and it's like are we allowed to talk about that sort of thing?  I think in contemporary songs there's all sorts of broken hearts, and my love did this kind of stuff. But I think the Bible also offers that as well. And so I appreciate the wide spectrum of invitation and emotion. Going back to what you said, Chris, this invites us to feel and I think that that's super important. 

Kristina Kaiser  09:53

It is super important, because even for those that would say, Oh, I'm a heart type. I mean, I'm a heart type, right? But a lot of my day is spent trying to not tap into that so that I can be a productive member of society. And so it does help me, if a poem, it could go either way…either helps me to laugh at something that's just read that’s completely ridiculous, or helps me to embrace how hard the moment is, such as things going on with war in the world right now.  Sometimes I have found that the easiest response is a poem that came from the heart of somebody in the middle of a difficult response. And it just speaks to what we're all feeling but don't have words for.  It's so natural not to have words in the middle of trauma, so to be able to borrow someone else's words for a minute, and allow that to kind of help us get through it is so useful. Whether they're ours or not, kinda doesn't matter.

Chris Roberts  10:56

Yeah, I like using someone else's words to help you sort of define what's going on, and make sense of the world. And yeah, I love that it comes in poetry, music, those are unexpected places that you find these words. And, I have a guitar student that I've encouraged to write music, and he, it first started with poetry and then lyrics. And, you know, he's written an amazing song about the Ukraine war, and it's called off to Belarus, and it's about this refugee experience. And, I mean, I was just astounded by the lyrics and the prose and the poem that turned into a song. He gave words to what someone else in the world is feeling. And it invited me into solidarity with them. And I don't know if there are other means, besides music and poetry, that do that. So I appreciate it for the fact that it invites us into solidarity and it invites us into these experiences, where we can engage in ways that we normally wouldn't.

Christina Roberts  12:13

Yeah, and I think also maybe to bring the other side in. There's also a lightheartedness of going back to my Shel Silverstein in the fourth grade, very light and fun and easy. And so I think sometimes I like to write goofy things about my family members or things where you can take the Roses are red, violets are blue, and change that and make something goofy about a friend of yours. Or actually, we were going through some old photos and things like that. And one of my friends from college would write goofy poems about how crazy my hair looked in the morning. We were roommates and stuff like that, and just being able to laugh but to say, oh, you know, you have crazy hair in the morning is one thing, but it was in this creative poem form, it just kind of amplifies the celebration of life in those beautiful ways. And so yes, there can be the somber and the solidarity, which is beautiful, what you're describing with your guitar student and music student, Chris, but also sort of that lightheartedness that life can offer as well,

Kristina Kaiser  13:08

For sure. And I think I brought up this woman Chelan Harkin, she has stuff like that all the time. So like the Song of Songs, stuff may be a little too uncomfortable for me, the language just doesn't quite get there for me. But she does something very similar in some of her poetry about this kind of loving, close connection.  “I can't wait to be with you. Oh, divine one” type thing. And it does resonate. It does connect and then suddenly, I can be in touch with something that I couldn't otherwise be in touch with. So yeah, in a way, it's because of the humor of it. All right. So just kind of go to that funny place.

Chris Roberts  13:49

Yes. You mean you can't resonate with a flock of goats and hairlike a flock of goats descending? 

Kristina Kaiser  14:00

The belly of wheat man, the belly of wheat. Why?

Chris Roberts  14:06

Thank you so much for a rich conversation and different ways to think about poetry and the contemplative.

On that note, I think we are going to transition to what we are into this week. What are we into?

Christina Roberts  14:27

Well, I am into oyster crackers. So our family unfortunately, four out of five of us, had the stomach flu cycle through our home this week.  I have become an oyster cracker snob. For those who don't know there are flatter oyster crackers and more poofy ones and so when you're reintroducing food, oyster crackers are a favorite in our family.  So I am into the delicacies of oyster crackers.

Kristina Kaiser  14:52

I love that you just use the word poofy. And then there's the poofy cracker. So maybe In the poetry vein, I have been very much into the gnarly trees around towns.  I've just been noticing that the leaves aren't quite out yet. So you can still really see the tree. But the weather's gotten a little better. I’m trying to drive extra slow. And just noticing how the trees twist in his various ways. There were some pretty old trees around and just wondering, what is the story? Like, at what point did that happen? Now I need to take a walk and really be able to see the trees.

 hris Roberts  15:31

Nice. Well, I have been into birds lately.  We've gone on lots of walks, we live really close to a marsh, we live close to some bird sanctuaries. And, I think I've noticed a few bird watchers with their big cameras with their long lenses. And I've had thoughts in the past of who wants to do that on their Saturday?  And, I've been on these walks and discovered these different colored birds and the different species. And, you know, it's been fascinating. And I'm like, Oh, I can see why people get into bird watching. And I've been into this, we have a particular bird that's native to Wisconsin, I believe.  It's a black bird, and it has orange on its shoulders, and just a line of yellow underneath the orange. And my goal is to figure out what kind of bird that is. And so I've really been into birds and bird watching lately. 

Well, thank you so much for joining us today.  As you may have picked up on, we very much value community and relationship here at The Contemplative Life. And so we'd love it if you had a moment to drop us a line.  Maybe tell us where you're listening from, or even let us know if you have a question or topics you'd like to see addressed here on the podcast. And you can find all of our contact information on our website, thecontemplativelife.net. Until next time, make it a great week.