Ep 64 Lifelong Learners

Today we talk about how being a lifelong learner connects to the contemplative life. For many of us, adulthood brings with it the pressures of feeling like we need to know the answers. And over the course of months and years, we can begin to lose track of what can emerge when we see the world with wonder. We lose that willingness to start from wherever we are and grow from there. But the good news is: There’s an antidote! Join us for a conversation of inspiration. 

Additional Resources
Book: Walking in Wonder by John O’Donohue 

#BeginnersMind
#Childlike
#Curiosity
#Wonder
#Inclusive 

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Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

lifelong learner, beginner’s mind

SPEAKERS

Dominic Kaiser, Christina Roberts, Chris Roberts, Kristina Kaiser

Dominic Kaiser  00:06

Welcome to The ContemplativeLife: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens.

I'm Christina Roberts.
I'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser.  We're glad you joined us. 

Christina Roberts  00:24

Hello, it is great to be with you. Today we are talking about what it means to be a lifelong learner and how that relates to “the contemplative life”. And I think there's several different phraseologies that people tend to use when thinking about this concept. One is the concept of a beginner's mind. Seeing everything as if it's your first time to do it. What does it mean to have a beginner's mind? Christianity might refer to this as a childlike faith. Jesus invites us to approach life like a child and to look at things with a sense of wonder, not having predisposed judgments or opinions or biases. And so I wonder, as we think about this concept of being a lifelong learner, what comes up for us today? 

Kristina Kaiser  01:09

it is interesting that you're able to quote the Bible immediately.  To say, Oh, the Bible talks about looking at life with a childlike faith. Because when I think about the early adult life of my faith it looks like trying to learn the answers, trying to have the specific answer.  I've classically been an achiever and somebody who wants to feel like they know things.  I have been a grown up since I was six, right? Like, I wanted to be taken seriously and know things. And so I think it's an on one hand, whew, it's been a learning curve for me to exist as a grown up who can live and wonder and childlikeness and not have all the answers, turn to somebody else and say, That's a great question. I don't know. Because grownups are supposed to know stuff. And yet, this experience of being able to say, Yeah, I don't know, let's look at it again. Let's see if this has anything else to offer. So freeing, so opening.

Chris Roberts  02:16

When I think about a lifelong learner, I think that's definitely a desire that I have. But I've experienced a lot of obstacles to actually practicing lifelong learning. And I think one of the things that comes to my mind immediately is, I think we just fall into ruts in life when we're just barely surviving.  Or we're in that type of mode where we're just doing the daily grind. And for me, being an extroverted person, I really like to learn in groups. And so I've had to consciously do classes, do a little bit with this group, or do a little bit with that group.  I have to intentionally put myself in a situation where I'm going to learn and grow. And if I don't put myself in a situation where I can learn, I can read books on my own, I can look into different areas of life that I want to know about. But I find that I do better in groups. And so that's helped me quite a bit, as I look at this approach to lifelong learning as actually doing it in community. 

Christina Roberts  03:30

One frame I've considered is that  it's obvious that we feed our bodies every day and we need to nourish ourselves. But this idea of feeding the mind every day and doing something to stretch the mind.  In the body one one might stretch in the morning and do things like that. And so what does it mean to feed and to stretch the thinking? In the same way, it's a paradigm shift for me. I think I know that with my body, it’s not like I walked one day and so I'm not going to walk again.  It's a daily thing where I'm walking and moving and doing those things, and I have to eat every single day. And somehow I think mentally it's like, oh, well, if I did something that I don't necessarily have to do that for a while, versus kind of this daily thing of like, no, it's pretty important to feed the mind and stretch the mind on a daily basis.  It’ss just part of the whole being and wellness. And so I think that, to me, ties into this idea of the invitation and excitement of lifelong learning.

Kristina Kaiser  04:20

Yeah, I feel like this word curious, has been an action packed and jam-packed word in the last couple of years. I don't think I was very good at being curious. Somehow, I think again, because I loved being able to feel like I knew something that I understood that I was tracking with everybody. But to be able… how many times have I sat with people and thought I understood what they were saying only to realize at some point they were talking about something totally different. And if I had asked more questions. If I had been more curious, I would have maybe noticed that sooner, seen something differently. We would have related differently, so just learning really in this middle life to embrace a curiosity, “tell me more about that. That's been a huge thing for me over the last couple of years.

Chris Roberts  05:17

Yeah. Curious is one of those words, I agree with you.  I think another word for me is wonder. I'm currently reading a book called Walking in Wonder.  It's about this relationship that this guy had with the theologian, philosopher, John O'Donohue. Talking about our relationship to nature and walking in wonder. But I'm also stirred about my interactions with people, approaching my interactions with a sense of wonder. What is going to happen in this conversation? And not these predisposed ideas of what's going to take place, or what's going to happen. And so, I think, for me, this lifelong learning approach, having a sense of wonder, is super helpful as well. 

Christina Roberts  06:13

I think part of learning is cerebral learning, but there's also learning by doing and action-oriented learning and experiments. And I think sometimes an obstacle would be, frustration that if you've learned something, and you want to be at a particular level, and you're not quite there yet. And so Chris, and I have this thing about B minus work. And sometimes we're willing to do the B minus work, because otherwise, we're never going to get to the iteration of whatever it is that we're doing in a way that feels like more A type of work. And this can be hard sometimes, right? Where it's like, okay, I know that this isn't optimal, but unless I'm doing this at the B minus level, I'm never going to get feedback and figure out what I need to tweak or adapt or evaluate.  And so I think sometimes that frustration and perfectionism can come in to be an obstacle, in my opinion, with lifelong learning. And unless it's perfect, we don't want to do it.  

Kristina Kaiser  07:04

That's really beautiful. It's really helpful. Again, we really do want to put our best foot forward. And so being able to say, let me just try, and we allow that with kids, right? We say, I didn't expect you to play this song perfectly the first time, I didn't expect you to be able to do any of this perfectly.  I am well into my adult life and drawing a 3d box. It still stymies me. So just getting started can be so helpful. Also, I just found it helpful to notice. Okay, when I don't know something and I can't do it perfectly, what's happening inside of me? How am I feeling that in my body?  There is this reaction, there's nervousness that can come when we realize I don't know, I don't have the answers. So being able to kind of sit in that space of what does it feel like?  When I'm in that space of not being able to fully do it all the way I wanted to relax into it, get used to it, explore that space a little bit, embrace it, to know it more fully.  Because like what you're saying, if I start here, at B minus work, that's maybe kind of like the idea that I knew in part, I understood in part, and now I can understand more fully, I can keep moving forward, just by getting started. 

Chris Roberts  08:30

It's interesting. I'm teaching one of my children music, and we're working with the circle of fifths, to sort of learn what chords go together. And I love that there's this push of the boundaries of the rule of the circle of fifths. It's like, well, can you play an F chord in the key of G? And I'm like, sure, yeah, you can. I love the exploration of, I'm going to try, I'm going to try this note, in this key, or I'm going to try doing this with this scale. And for me, it's like, I like playing along with it because it's like, can I transition? Can I transition into a new sort of space, even though a lot of people might say, well, that's wrong, that doesn't sound good. That's got a discordant feel to it. And so I think even I love that word discordant. Even that has something to teach us, right? When something doesn't vibrate perfectly or the harmony is off a little bit. What is that teaching us? I really look to music a lot to teach me and hopefully, I will be a lifelong learner of many other things besides music. But that's one of the things that also comes up for me as we discussed this idea of lifelong learning.

Christina Roberts  10:05

And I think that's good too, because we do learn from the failures and the mistakes and the things that didn't go well. And I think some of the most important learnings actually come from that. And so if we do have these contemplative practices, and I appreciate what's been lifted up today about what's coming up in my body, when I consider this or the idea of curiosity, can we look at our failures or mistakes, or this didn't turn out exactly how I wanted, but I'm going to be curious about that. And I think that could be from the simplest thing. I remember, as a kid, one of my aunts saying, You always do a recipe three times. The first time, it’s not going to be very good. Then you adjust it the second time, and then by the third time, you've perfected it.  And it's really good. And so even that approach of I'm not even going to expect the first time that I write a blog post, or even doing the podcast, it's like, you know, we've improved as we've podcasted together, because we're growing as people and our flow together. And so whatever endeavor you do, as an artist, or whatever you're learning, just in the day to day, I think that that's an important thing to have just expecting that there's going to be those mistakes and those trials and errors and adaptations and adjustments along the way. 

Kristina Kaiser  11:08

So interesting, because I had been thinking a little bit before about the helpfulness of not judging, but really what you're describing, is it a process specifically of not judging period.  But it's a different sort of interaction with it. It's not like I turned off my brain and I'm not assessing things anymore. But I'm not judging it so as to shut it down, cast it out. Maybe it can't be in my circle anymore. It's like an assessment that allows things to get better. I don't know if there's a better word for that. But it is a different quality to the way we use judgment. 

Christina Roberts  11:48

And I like that too, because then we can delight in our earlier versions. You know what I mean? I was listening to someone and she was talking about her business. Some of her first websites, when she looks back, she's like, Oh, that was cute, I had teal and red. She looks at it now and she's so different now, but she can appreciate that version of who she was. And so I think that there becomes this lightheartedness. And again, going back to that childlike faith. That was great. That was what it was in third grade, and we love the third grade. And then we appreciate that in seventh grade, your sketches look a little bit different. But that doesn't discount the third-grade version. And so there's this inclusivity of all of it is great. And it's transforming us to be who we are today. 

Chris Roberts  12:32

I really like that. I think sometimes we can look at our past selves, or past experiences with critical eyes that just say, Oh, that was useless. That was worthless. I don't know if anything is worthless or doesn't hold value. I think if you look back and you're like, Man, I wish I would have made different choices. Well, if you're saying, Man, I wish I would have made different choices, what you're saying is, I learned something from that. And I really like what we're lifting up. Because if you're looking at your past failures and mistakes as something that you can just erase, then you're actually not learning anything from it, you're not looking at it with the eyes that say I want to do better in the future. I want to make better decisions, or I want to try something and I hope I fail. I think that's a helpful way to look at things too. I hope I feel really, really good at this new endeavor that I'm going to do and learn a lot from it. And I think specifically young people that are going on a new adventure or embark on a new life journey, I think looking at it from that angle can be really, really helpful. 

Christina Roberts  13:40

I appreciate the humble posture of that beginner's mind that we talked about at the beginning of the episode.  I was talking to someone the other day, and she's getting her master's in theater. And she's been directing plays for close to two decades, And she said, Yeah, I'm taking a directing class this semester. I expected her to say, you know, I've done this before. But instead she said, I can't wait to see how it goes.  I've directed for 20-years, I can't wait to see what I learned that's new. And I thought, what a wonderful, wonderful attitude going into this with that beginner's mind of humility.  There's always something new to learn. I think that just expands the world to us. So I'm excited about this topic of being a lifelong learner. And thank you for exploring it today together on this podcast. 

So on that note, this is the point of our podcast where we talk about what we are into this week. What are we into friends?

Chris Roberts  14:34

Well, I am into something that is pretty big, particularly where we live in the Midwest. It's called March Madness, this college basketball tournament for those that are listening, that aren't from America. It's this huge tournament, people fill out these brackets of who they think is going to win. And there's a lot of bantering back and forth about the team that you're rooting for.  I am all into March Madness, I've already filled out my bracket. I've sent quite a bit of emails, trash talking other people in their teams, to try to get them into joining the tournament the month of March and excited to see which college comes out with a win. 

Kristina Kaiser  15:28

Which college will emerge. Yes. Whohoo, March Madness.  

Speaking of being a lifelong learner, I find it so interesting. Every time I discover something new related to prayer, I think that's got to be it. There can't be anything else out there that I've never heard of or never experienced or never seen. And just yesterday, someone started a prayer session with singing chimes, because they were subbing in for somebody else who normally uses a singing bowl. And it's so similar and yet, just a slightly different thing. And now, I really want to get singing chimes as well. Because it's just a little different and a little beautiful. And now I want singing chimes.

Christina Roberts  16:18

Go for it, Kristina. That sounds lovely.  

Well, I am into waterfalls. So as we are recording, we are going to be leaving tomorrow to head to Canada to visit family. And on the way back, we will be stopping off at Niagara Falls. And in addition to that we are going to North Carolina later on this year, and we're going to be visiting some family. And so last night my niece texted me different waterfalls in the area. And so waterfalls seemed to be in the air. So I am looking forward to engaging with water in a new way in the coming weeks and months ahead.  

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