Ep 61 What’s All the Hype about Gratitude

“I’ve been on a gratitude journey for many years. And I’m still not where I want to be. But I see change…” 

“I was up in the middle of the night, and I realized my brain was still working. I had to breathe. I had to slow down…” 

Life is a mix of good and challenging. Join us as we explore the spiritual practice of gratitude as a means of living our lives to the full. 

Additional Resources

Book: A View from the Ridge: Morris West
Gratitude Reflection: Three Forms of Gratitude Video

#Gratitude
#Reflection
#Centering
#Thankfulness 

For Transcript:
Go to the "Transcript" Tab.
If you are in a player that does not have the Transcript Tab, use the link below:
https://thecontemplativelife.buzzsprout.com/1642654/10247926-ep-61-what-s-all-the-hype-about-gratitude

Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

gratitude lists, grateful, thankful, thanksgiving

SPEAKERS

Dominic Kaiser, Christina Roberts, Chris Roberts, Kristina Kaiser

Dominic Kaiser  00:06

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens.

I'm Christina Roberts.
I'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser. We're glad you joined us. 

Christina Roberts  00:23

Hello, it is great to be with you. Today we are going to be talking about gratitude. What's all the hype about gratitude? What prompted this episode is my 11-year-old, where something came up about gratitude and she's like, “Mom, what is all this gratitude stuff at school? We talk about gratitude lists and I don't really understand. What does that even mean?” 

 I think she had a basic idea, like Thanksgiving, some people like to go around the table and give thanks.  Is that what gratitude is? And so I really appreciated her question, because one of the things that we want to foster with contemplative life is safe spaces to ask whatever question. And I think she felt a little embarrassed to ask this question, because it's so prevalent, she hears about it all the time that she should know what it is. But in reality, what is a gratitude list? And why do we offer gratitude? And so I thought, well, this might be an interesting podcast. And so a couple things that I want to kick off the conversation with as it relates to gratitude is, how does gratitude intersect with maybe jealousy or envy?  And I think one aspect of gratitude is actually wanting what we have and appreciating what actually is. And I found that to be helpful sometimes as we're thinking about wanting something that we don't have, and we can oh, I don't want to be jealous or envious, and I need to be content. And I understand that. But I think there's also something about not just, “I'm grateful that I have this”, but actually, “I want this in my life”. And my gratitude can lead me to a deeper appreciation and desire and want.  Or sometimes it's like, Yeah, I'm thankful for this, but in reality, I don't know that I still want this anymore. And so maybe this is something that illuminates that there's not a deeper want or desire coming up beneath that. So anyways, as I think about the hype of gratitude and why it's so prevalent, I wonder what comes up for the two of you today. 

Kristina Kaiser  02:13 

That's incredibly deep.  I had not even thought so deeply down into it, the notion of how my jealousy or envy playing is amazing. I do love gratitude, which I'm guessing is going to come as a shock to nobody. And I think, when I introduce it to people who haven't done it much before, there is usually this, I tried it and it's true, I felt so much better, after the fact. And I was even using it recently, someone near me was kind of feeling anxious and upset. And so we first did a little bit of What do I see? What do I feel? What do I hear? What are even just 10 things that I feel grateful for just as a kind of calming, slowing things down, getting into a reality space. So there really are a lot of ways to use gratitude. And it's interesting. There's this place in Second Corinthians, it's 4:16, where it talks about, hey, don't lose heart, because even though these things are going on, we're outwardly wasting away. So even though there's all of this kind of struggle and turmoil, we're being renewed day by day. And so that's super encouraging. But how am I going to get to that space of finding that space of renewal? 

Chris Roberts  03:41

I like what both of you have said about gratitude. And I think one of the things that's interesting Christina Roberts, you brought up things like  jealousy or comparison or,  how does thankfulness play into some of these more negative emotions. And I think for me, I've been on a gratitude journey for many years. And I still don't feel like I'm where I want to be with gratitude. But I think where I started to see a change in myself, and as I was viewing other people who are grateful, I think there's this foundational understanding that life is hard and this embracing of, there are challenges in life. If you embrace that the nature of life is difficult and challenging, then you understand that there are going to be some challenging times and there's going to be some good times. And I think for me, I kind of wanted the world to do good to me all the time. And so, whenever life wasn't good, there was complaining or I was owed something. And I think for me, embracing the fact that life is hard, and being grateful for what is in the midst of those circumstances. has really been life changing. So that's what comes up for me as I think about gratitude. 

Christina Roberts  05:05

And I think even to your point about this has been a practice for me.  Many years ago, I used to work in a children's ministry, and something about really wanting to instill this idea of gratitude with kids and more of like a practice. And I think at the time expanding, beyond, I'm thankful for my house or my family. I think sometimes we kind of have these basic things. And so we did this activity, it was around Thanksgiving and we would encourage the children.  We had these big charts, and we would list all the things out A-Z. And it was just a fun little thing. But for me as an adult it really began to open up my eyes a little bit more about gratitude. And so even when I was sitting with my 11-year-old, we ended up making a short little video, and we will share a link to this in the show notes, just about what are three things that aren't normal things that we are grateful for? How can I do that?  It's like, Yeah, I do love this, this thing that I'm going to be grateful for. And somehow articulating that and naming that, again, to your point, Kristina kind of deepens what already is. It helps us to maybe savor a little bit more, all the good in our lives. And so not that we're taking a wand and waving away the challenges or the struggles. But I think sometimes when we do have those challenges and struggles, like to your point about losing hearts, somehow grounding ourselves in. Absolutely, that is real, and maybe I do feel inadequate right now, or I'm feeling a little jealous, and it's okay to name that. That is real. And at the same time, these things are real, too. So I can either swim in the spiral of these downward emotions, or I can name those as real and have some space to process that. And also, gosh, there's all these wonderful things, too, that when I focus there, your attention is drawn towards different things. 

Kristina Kaiser  06:41

It's totally a helpful way for me to find context in life a little bit because it is so natural for us to keep ruminating. Like if there's something that we want to be different and there's something that we want to change, it just comes back around.  Even this morning, my husband was saying, Oh, I got up in the middle of night, and I went back to bed, and I realized that my work was still going through my head. And so I had to breathe, I had to slow down. This is life, right? The head just does what it wants. And so taking this moment, to kind of say, Okay, what is all the good and to change the context for my day, and what I'm thinking about and how I am showing up in the world, it just moves things around for me. And I think that it both comes natural to me, but so does the other, right?  I grew up in a household where it was all about gathering around to talk about whatever you were unhappy about. I grew up in that context.  I can roll with that. It takes some effort for me to say, What is good? When we sat down at dinner my nine-year-old was amazing about instigating it. So we'll do highs, lows, right? So we're not ignoring the other side of it, but they do it really well. What are my highs? What are my lows, and that's really another form of them getting a chance to find gratitude.

Christina Roberts  08:09

I think another thing that comes up for me is that I really appreciate the Genesis story where God did something, and then he intentionally paused to say it is good. And we're reflecting and having that action/ reflection thing. And in addition to the spiritual direction, I coached a few people that are starting side businesses, and I think it's really easy to like we met this goal, we're plowing through the to the next one. And it's like, wait a minute, that's amazing that you just did XYZ, and we need to pause and reflect on that. And I think, again, I appreciate that rhythm that is given to us in Genesis where not only is that appropriate, but it's actually part of I think our human rhythm that we're invited to do. So, yeah, that also comes to mind as we're discussing this. 

Chris Roberts  08:53

Yeah, there's an autobiography, from Morris West. It's called a View from the Ridge. And one of the things that he suggests at a certain age is to live simply and have only three phrases left in our spiritual vocabulary. And the phrases are Thank you, thank you, and thank you. And he suggests that this is a sign of maturity, the more that we are grateful, the more mature that we are becoming in our spiritual lives. And so I think a helpful image for me is, even as an adult, if gratitude is something that comes out of me, I'm moving more towards maturity. But if I'm complaining, I'm sort of like that adolescent child who is stomping his foot when he's not getting what he wants. Right? I think whenever that is our response when we want something and we don't get it, and then we stomp our foot, that's a sign of immaturity.  I really appreciate West’s reflections on gratitude. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And that's such a great thing to aspire to, to want to mature in that type of way in our spiritual lives. 

Kristina Kaiser  10:09

Yeah, I think it's Martha Beck, who says that we tend to look for happiness everywhere, but right where we are. And that's part of this gratitude experience. What is really at play is that comment you brought up at the very beginning around jealousy, and this one too around, thank you, thank you. Thank you, it is good here. It's just that we do spend our lives striving a little bit, a lot of the time for this grasp and in the next thing, so I love that notion. And I try to live by it to take that pause, take that moment to be excited before moving on. Less, you know, 30 years pass you by, which is already happening just to say things like my husband.  I just celebrated 24 years and it seemed completely fine to say we were in our teens as a married couple. But to say that, like, we're almost to a quarter century, that's just a lot of time. So you really don't see it going. And it does help me to stay present and stay in my life to spend time and gratitude.

Chris Roberts  11:19

I think the older I get, the more I'm drawn to people who practice this gratitude.  I find myself wanting to be around them. It's a pleasant experience for me. And I can find myself thinking about it. Well, if I spend all my time with people that are just grateful, yes, that can wear off on me. And if I shun being with people who are on the opposite spectrum, then what do I have to learn in life?  And so not that I'm judging people that aren't grateful, or complain, but I feel like there's a balance to life.  There are things that being around all sorts of people can teach you. And so even though I'm drawn to people who are thankful and want to spend all my time with them, I think there's also an invitation to how I can be present to people who maybe are growing in their awareness of gratitude and practice. So that's something else that comes up for me just to pay attention to it myself. Because I know that I could just totally gravitate towards people that are that grateful. And I don't think anybody practices, I mean, anybody that I know, practices gratitude all the time, I think we all have our moments. But I just think that's worth saying.

Christina Roberts  12:38

And maybe one more thing I'll add is I think sometimes, and I was getting at this with my daughter, it's not like we have to now sit down and make a gratitude list. Maybe for some people, that's helpful. I know, some people like at the end of the workday, part of their closing ritual is to write down three things that they were grateful for from the workday, and then they shut the computer and move on. Kristina, you mentioned at the dinner table, what are your highs and lows, and that's kind of a practice centered around you're already eating and you're kind of embellishing that. Sometimes practicing verbal gratitude, sometimes just in our mind, taking a moment to be thankful. Spontaneous gratitude, I think is amazing to Chris your point, being around people who are grateful, it just spills out in them. And so maybe you're with them, and they're admiring Oh, those are lovely flowers, or I really think that that's a great sweater that you have on or my gosh, did you see the sunset last night? I think spontaneous gratitude can be woven in and so in no way do we want this to feel like a burden now I have to go practice gratitude. The hope is that this would be woven into our lives and just become kind of a fabric of our being, whether it's through music, verbal, written, etc. In our various forms.

Kristina Kaiser  13:44

For sure. Yes, I think if I'm having a really difficult day, it helps me to, Okay, I'm going to pick up the kids. So as I'm backing out, get my bearings again, which is good, because otherwise, it just feels like a spin. And you know, going back to the age problem, like if I ruminate too much, I'm going to get a headache and then it's going to compound. And so finding a way to bring myself back to center. But you're right, I think it's, it really is this kind of weaving it in business. I even know people who are like, Oh, I do it on one specific day of the week or whatever. Because otherwise it's, it feels too much. And it gets too superficial. And so there is kind of this flowing of it as opposed to I show up at church every whatever. Yeah, it's different than that.

Christina Roberts  14:32

Yeah. And I know someone whose practice of gratitude is through photos. And so every day she tries to take a photo of something that expresses gratitude. So again, I think there's so many different ways that we can practice gratitude. So I personally am inspired by our conversation. Thanks so much for the generative thoughts.

Christina Roberts  14:54

And this is the part of our podcast where we talk about what we are into this week.

Kristina Kaiser  14:59

Okay, I have two things because one is super boring. And I feel like I mean, it's not boring for me. But I have been super into studying and learning this week because I have a little more space to get a bunch of things. And so I have piles of books in various rooms and things that I'm just furiously digesting. And that is one thing. But the other thing, this is kind of weird, we are super into our house lately, taking butternut squash and turning it into a sauce. So making it into some sort of pasta thing. So kind of like a fake dairy thing. Or you can darken it with more of the paprika and chili powder flavors. And said the great thing about using vegetables as a sauce is when you place it with noodles. You know, normally if you put dairy stuff in it, then it soaks into the noodle. And then if you have leftovers, it's just like a dry thing. The vegetables don't soak in. So you have all of this flavor and all of this creaminess, and no guilt, like there's, there's no problems, you're eating a vegetable. And so it has been declared a win in terms of an actual substitute, you know, how some substitutes are just substitutes, this one has been a full on embrace. So that is me.

Christina Roberts  16:20

I love it. Well, as we're recording this, the Winter Olympics are on. So I am into watching the Winter Olympics with my kids. They happen to be at an age where they're really into it. And so they are motivated to kind of finish their homework and get their lunches packed for the next day. If they can do that, then we are watching the Olympics at night. And it's fun to watch their personalities. One of my kids is like, Oh my gosh, do they get hurt? How are they? Why do they keep showing the mistakes of that person? Why are we doing that? And another person is making these comments about the commentators. And we're like, I think this commentator is biased towards this nation. And so it's just hilarious. So I really enjoyed our nighttime watching of the Winter Olympics. 

Chris Roberts  17:02

I am part of this family so I have enjoyed the Olympics as well, probably for different reasons. But it is a lot of fun in our house. But I think something else that I've been into is repairing some things in our house that have broken. We have three kids and they are hard on some of our stuff. And so I've been kind of like repairing.  We had a desk that the kids like pulled on and broke it and so I'm putting wood glue in the back of it and fixing it. I'm fixing the chairs and fixing drawers. So I've kind of been in fix it mode. So that's something that I've been into, I think they've compounded the list of things that needed to be fixed. So I've just taken the bull by the horns and got after it this week.

Christina Roberts  17:56

And I am grateful that you are fixing things. 

Chris Roberts  17:58

I receive your gratitude. 

Christina Roberts  18:01

Well, thanks so much for joining us today. As always, you can check out our newsletter which comes out twice a month at thecontemplativelife.net is where you can sign up. Until next time, make it a great week. Thanks for joining us.