E 232 Neurodivergence + The Contemplative

In this episode, we explore the gifts of neurodivergence within the contemplative life.

Join us as we discover how ways of being such as ADHD, autism, dyslexia open fresh pathways to the Divine.

Check out some resources for neurodivergence mentioned on The Contemplative Life blog.

AUDIBLE LEARNERS

Kindle

Kindle has the ability to read books to you.  This has been a game changer for those who find reading cumbersome but desire to read books or have a screen free wind down option at bed, since you are listening rather than scrolling. 

An audible account is also a great resource for sharing books among family members or having your own library available to you.  You have opportunities to collect points and also have many free options.

Blocking sound

Many learning styles and personalities find benefits from noise canceling headphones that help you lock in.   Over the ear options are great if you want to make it obvious that you are not interested in conversation or engaging at the moment.  

Having some affordable in ear options can also be great to keep in backpacks, next to work out clothes, or other places.  For those who tend to lose items, these allow you to track them.  

TACTILE INPUT

These nice plush blankets, as well as weighted blankets, are perfect for cozy hygge type evenings.

Along with that, long hot showers are a favorite way to unwind and release all the experiences from the day.  Having a good shower head makes the difference as well as my favorite Eucalyptus scrub.

We are also beginning to explore rings that we can twirl as we engage on Zoom meetings or in situations when we need to release energy.

Our kids like weighted stuffed animals at bedtime.  There's many cute ones to choose from to switch it up.

We are new to the world of handheld spiky textures as a way to wake up parts of the brain when we feel a bit of a slump.

Some of our show notes contain affiliate links. We want to save you the effort of looking up resources + we get a small commission at no extra cost to you. Thanks for your support.

Transcript

Neurodivergence

Chris: [00:00:00] Hello. It's great to be with you today. We are exploring the intersection of neurodivergence and contemplation, before we begin, as a disclaimer, neither Christina nor I or neuropsychologist, and I'm sure you're not surprised to hear that, but I say that because we are coming into the conversation not as a way to diagnose anyone or to try to be clinicians.

We are coming to this as spiritual guidance practitioners who have some personal experience in our own lives, as well as observations over the years of what it means to engage in contemplative spaces and practices from a neurodivergent lens. So as we begin this topic, I think it's helpful to share a definition so we know what [00:01:00] we are talking about.

Neurodivergence. Could be individuals whose brains process information differently than what is considered typical or neurotypical. It has to do with how the brain takes in and processes information. And there are lots of examples of neurodivergence. So A DHD dyslexia, autism, certain kinds of anxiety, or OCD.

Some examples of this, and there's an. Estimated, I think 15 to 20% of the goal of the global population that have some sort of neurodivergence. And this number may be a bit skewed because often there's a stigma around this and people don't disclose, or perhaps it's undiagnosed. So in reality, that number may be even [00:02:00] a bit higher, but.

15 to 20% is significant. We likely have people listening to this podcast who have neurodivergence. I fit into that category myself as someone who is diagnosed as dyslexia as a kid. If you don't personally fall into that category, then likely you have a family member or a colleague or someone with whom you interact that experiences life with neurodivergence.

And it's our hope that the conversation today can help us

in new ways to understanding some of the struggles, and also engage with some of the gifts of neurodivergent individuals.

Christina: Yeah, thanks for that intro, Chris. I find it interesting that neurodivergence often means experiencing the world in ways that don't always like fit into the mold, quote unquote. And in many ways, I think that's what the contemplative life is about. It's paying attention, it's [00:03:00] listening deeply in discovering God in the spirit's presence in ways that don't necessarily fit the mold.

And speaking from my perspective, I have had unfortunately both misunderstanding and lack of understanding as to how the brain works in these different ways. So to build off of your example of dyslexia, when I was a kid growing up, if I heard of someone that said they had dyslexia, I just assumed that they flipped letters around oh, they think B is D, and that's it.

I had no further understanding of it. It was very revolutionary. And actually I had no curiosity around it either. But I've since discovered that it's a totally different way the braid takes in and processes information. And because of this, it allows people to see things differently. And so as a result, many inventors or creative people have dyslexia, Steve Jobs Steven Spielberg, Agatha Christie, Albert Einstein.

And so this brain wiring has led to some incredible scientific and technological and artistic breakthroughs. Or take a DHD for an [00:04:00] example. I used to think that was just someone who was distracted or couldn't focused. But again, the more I learn, I discover that people with a DHD. Actually have an incredible capacity to lock in at times.

And so when given a topic or an area of interest, they can have a very deep focus. And so Bill Gates is an example, or Michael Phelps, Simone Biles, who are Olympic medalists have a DHD in their ability to lock in has really helped them to excel in their sports. And so for me, it's been helpful to broaden my limited view of Neurodivergence and to see the incredible gifts, but also like some challenges that we may come across if we describe contemplation as sitting still or being quiet.

That can be a huge barrier, or it could be a non-starter for folks. But if we talk about contemplation from the view of sensory attunement, right? That's another people, that process and their senses are heightened, folks with autism and different neurodivergence pattern recognition, seeing from a fresh lens and if we offer opportunities to see, those are gifts and wonderful ways that God has [00:05:00] made your brain that feels very different and invitational.

And so instead of telling someone, okay, you need to sit and pray. If we invite them to say, walk a labyrinth as they move and take in the world in that setting, their brain can connect to the spirit in some potent ways. And so I think we have much to learn in the realm of neurodivergence and maybe those that are quote unquote typical I don't even know what that means, but those that maybe don't have that wiring, I think this is such a rich conversation for all of us.

Chris: Yeah, absolutely. I think, you brought up a few famous people like Bill Gates, Simone Biles, Michael Phelps, and I just remember hearing a story as a, someone who's been artistic and who engages with music. I remember hearing stories about the artist, prince. Or the artist formerly known as Prince, whatever error you may have listened to him, but he used to have these moments.

I know it was reported. Uh, and there's a lot of conflicting sources that whether or not he had AD HD or not, And one of the things that he [00:06:00] had the ability to do. Was to lock in to these creative moments. These creative waves would come over him and sweep over him, and he would go into these 36, 48 hour sessions where, he barely ate.

And he had these team of people that were working around him and they couldn't keep up with him. Like he was just so creative and so focused in these. In, in these sessions that he would get caught up in. And and obviously from that, this amazing music happened. Prince is like one, probably one of the greatest artists of the 20th century.

But I agree. And I think several years ago, I personally had a breakthrough. When I started owning the fact that I think better and process spirituality better if I'm strumming my guitar and just playing the guitar, not even singing is how I pray. And it doesn't have to be bowing [00:07:00] my head or sitting on the floor or whatever.

I. Also benefit from tactile input. So if I'm on a Zoom call and I need to focus I like holding prayer beads or something that I can twirl in my hands to engage in a prayer time rather than thinking the only way or the best way to pray is to sit still. And so I think it's important to expand our definition of contemplative practices and contemplative spirituality into any ways that connect us to the divine and not to feel like that it isn't good or sacred.

Being hospitable to our inner life is very important. I can't fix or correct my neuro diversions. It just is, and I have to accept it and welcome it and include it into the ways that I interact with the world. And I don't have to be someone I'm not. And the more that I own it in my own life, the more that I can help [00:08:00] build on-ramps for others.

And I think, for example. I started walking with people who wanted to meet for spiritual direction. I do have some people who like to sit and that's fine. But the invitation to move and, share as they walk in nature has been so life-giving to folks who otherwise would feel like spiritual direction isn't really for them.

So I'm opening up possibility for others, and even if someone is not neurodivergent, they also benefit from new ways of engaging with God. 

Christina: Yeah, that's helpful. And I think understanding the beauty of non-linear thinking or those who see the world in patterns or have high intuition can become ways for me to engage in creativity or mystery or new ways of being.

Because I can see how the world is interconnected and just see from a completely different lens. And I remember years ago tuning into and just getting some feedback from [00:09:00] folks that were vulnerable enough to maybe to share with me some of their neurodivergence. And so I started offering kind of choices, in these retreat settings.

So during a portion of the day, you could engage in a variety of way, you could do an art project, and I would have various supplies that I brought. You could go read a book by yourself in the library. You could take a walk with another person, do yoga. You could have journal prompts that really engaged your brain in, in writing in that way.

And it was always fascinating to me to see what people resonated with and how those choices made for such a rich time of connection and engagement versus saying, this is the way that we're gonna engage on the retreat. This is the way you're expected to get in touch with your own inner voice or to connect with other people, for some people.

Being in crowds is not something that they wanna do. And so sharing aloud isn't something that feels invitational to them. And for others, that's where they get the life from and they love that kind of thing. And so giving people choices and options has just felt really liberating and also has expanded me to try new ways to engage with God that maybe otherwise I [00:10:00] would've been in a particular box.

So I think it's really helpful to recognize that. Contemplative living isn't a one size fits all, and as we explore and think about the different brain wirings, I think that's just one more invitation to explore that even deeper. 

Chris: Yeah, absolutely. I think, one of the things that I think of whenever I engage in this conversation I think what we're doing here with this conversation and people that are having conversations like this are opening up and expanding the ways that we experience the divine.

And, I think over the past, a hundred, 200 years for most of, I'll speak to Christianity 'cause that's where I'm coming from. We, with the enlightenment we've really highlighted all the cerebral experiences, but I love going back to, Christianity that was, 500 years ago and looking at the artwork and all the.

All the ways the expressions of connection with the divine looked like. And whether it was [00:11:00] outdoor, whether it was lighting candles, making candles, making bread, like some of the incredible artwork that came that you see in the stained glass windows. And I just. I love having conversations like this because it's expand, it's expansive, and I think for a long time we've tried to limit, this is the way that you experience God.

This is the way that you experience the divine. And I think just our creator who created so much we as human beings experience such a variety of creativity and opening that up in these spaces. The contemplative spaces seems to be really important for me. 

Christina: Yeah. And I think as we're living in these contemplative spaces, it's important to, to learn and I just think about, there's, I think so much we can borrow from even the school system over the years.

And again, as a kid I was not as in tune to this kind of stuff, but I don't think that there were as much of individual learning [00:12:00] plans and things like that, that we see in school settings today and just how important that is that maybe a child that. Doesn't engage in particular way. When given another option, they begin to flourish and really engage with that subject matter.

Because we're not saying you have to do it this way. And so for example, I keep using dyslexic 'cause you're on the call here. But sometimes reading through something and it's, what are they asking? I don't quite know. And so maybe you know the material, but when you're tested on it in that way, you're not sure what the question means.

But if someone can verbally say that to you, then that helps you to know what the question is and then you can answer it. And so there's now. Where testing sites or whatever will have the question read to you and then that eliminates one distraction or one barrier that you would have so that you can actually engage in what it is.

Or again, kids that need sensory breaks or movement breaks, I think is another thing that are in schools now where you're just saturated with all this stuff. And so outside of recess time, which is community and things like that. Having some movement breaks where folks with maybe different learning differences when they're taking tests [00:13:00] or things like that, take 20 minutes and then there'll be a five minute timer where they stop it and then you come back to that so that you can get a glass of water and move around, engage in different ways.

And so those are just a couple of little examples, but I think, or even, people that color code things or organize things in a certain way with index cards or things that help their brain to connect with different styles of learning or a sensory input, or having noise canceling headphones because too much noise is is a distraction for them and other people having music on really helps them, right?

And so there's so many differences there. And I think, the spiritual world I think has much to learn from. And I'm committed and excited to learn from. These different resources of how we can continue to expand and make some of these spiritual practices, again, engaging, fun, rewarding, feeling like people are gaining traction in, in ways that they want to engage.

And again, to your point, Chris, it doesn't have to be one looking, one particular way that I think, certainly we can borrow from our faith traditions, but there's so much more, I think, available to us. 

Chris: [00:14:00] Yeah, absolutely. And I think, streamlining I, I think streamlining is a gift, right?

Like we've included these practices because most people experience God this way, and I think. Yes, it has been gift, but in other ways it's left a few people out. And so I think contemplative space is all about how do we make room for everyone? So I really appreciate this conversation today.

Christina: And I'll mention too that in our show notes we've linked several different things that might be beneficial for those that are maybe tactile learners or audible learners or things like that. There's also a link to our blog where we're beginning on our blog on the contemplative life.net to have a resources page that list different things for retreats or ways that we can engage in contemplative practices with some different resources that we've gleaned over the years, and taking some of the legwork out for you so you can maybe.

Explore some different ways that you might be connecting with God and Spirit. So hopefully you can find that helpful. 

Chris: Yes, [00:15:00] absolutely. Thanks again for having this conversation. And now as the part of the podcast where we talk about, we are into, so what are we into? 

Christina: I am into aquariums. So a couple of months ago we went to the Discovery World in Milwaukee.

We dropped off one of our kids at the airport and thought we'd have a fun day there. And on the bottom floor of this Milwaukee museum was this incredible aquarium and. To be honest, I've I think we went to SeaWorld once with the kids. I don't know. So I haven't really engaged that much with aquariums.

And then, in the doctor's office, they used to have a fish, a really large fish tank to entertain the kids while they were waiting for the pediatrician. But man, there was just something about walking around this aquarium and really being captivated by the different colors and shapes and beauty and just this whole undersea world.

And the rest of the museum was also, there was a lot of engaging things. If you're ever in Milwaukee, I recommend the discovery world. But boy, [00:16:00] that aquarium just really captured my attention that day, so that's what I am into. 

Chris: Lovely. I think I'm into this every year. I think we've been doing the podcast for four, five years now, and I, it never gets old.

I think this time of year , we're currently experiencing fall and just the first sort of day of that cold air, that colder air. That, that you wake up to it and hit you in the face in the morning and  you smell the dew on the grass and the trees are starting to turn a little bit of colors.

I've seen some nice reds and some purples and some yellows. I just love fall. I could go on and on about fall. Fall is my favorite time of year. But it is just a sensory. Delight. So I am into fall and all things fall.

Thank you so much for joining us and until next time, make it a [00:17:00] great week.