Ep 186 Empaths

Today we discuss some of the benefits and challenges of those who identify as Empaths.  We also note people who do not identify that way but live, work or regularly relate to those who do and how we can learn and grow together.

Some of our show notes contain affiliate links. We want to save you the effort of looking up resources + we get a small commission at no extra cost to you. Thanks for your support.

Transcript

Empath

[00:00:00] Christina: Hello, it's great to be with you today. We are taking time to talk about empaths. I personally identify with this and find that often people who are drawn to contemplative living either identify themselves with being an empath or perhaps relate closely to others who do. So perhaps it's helpful to start By talking about empathy, this is the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

And again, being empathetic is a very useful trait in fostering meaningful relationships. It's how we socialize, how we read body language, how we appreciate things like art, share laughter. So it's an important part of our lives. That being said, though, there tends to be different levels of empathy that people possess.

And so the term empath is someone who is highly attuned to the emotions of others. Now it's not an official psychological term, but it is widely used, and I think it can help us in understanding our interactions with others. And so again, even with the term empath, there's varying degrees of how much someone is an empath.

But typically, people who identify with this are, they're often good listeners. They have high intuition, they can discern other people's emotions, we might call that reading the room. When they go into a room, they can really sense what's going on. They have a deep care for others. On the flip side, oftentimes they can maybe feel overwhelmed with crowds or taking on other people's stress.

Oftentimes they can go down a road of burnout as they are caring deeply for others around them. And so again, there's a lot of benefit that comes from being an empath, but also some areas to be mindful of as we navigate the depths of feelings that a person holds. Now I would say in our relationship, I tend to be more of an empath and Chris, on the other hand I don't think you would identify that way.

And yet there are a handful of people in our household who I think fall on the spectrum of an empath. And I wonder if you want to maybe speak from that perspective of someone who themselves maybe doesn't identify. Again, of course, we all has. As humans have empathy but maybe not identifying as an empath.

Perhaps there's listeners that have a parent or a coworker or someone else that they closely relate to that doesn't quite come from that. And then I can circle back around later and talk about some things that I have found helpful in this framing. 

[00:02:16] Chris: Yeah, I think it's, it can be challenging at times to live with several empaths.

I myself am a seven on the Enneagram. And so I do my best to try to stay away from big emotions, painful emotions. And so living with. Several individuals who are an empath. There's a lot for me to learn. And I think for me personally, that's the way I like to look at it. How can I learn from people who have such deep feelings about life?

And I think While it can be challenging it's also a beautiful thing. I think whenever I'm reflective, it's beautiful. I think sometimes in the moment it could be quite challenging, but I think that's where contemplation comes into, to, benefit whenever you are in the presence of someone experiencing strong emotions.

You might not understand, but if you take the time to reflect or listen, I think you, you have a lot to learn. So that's some of the benefits of living with empaths, but also some of the challenges. 

[00:03:23] Christina: And I would say that, as a kid, I didn't have this kind of terminology, this sort of understanding and self awareness.

But, I do remember, for example, like it was really hard for me to watch Charlie Brown as a child because I would just feel so sorry for Charlie Brown and the way that he was treated. And so certain cartoons really impacted me. And then as I got older and we're around different groups of friends that wanted to go out, just recognizing that different types of movies I couldn't handle, like I couldn't handle really of course, like horror movies or really sad, deep movies.

I had to be in a really particular frame of mind to be able to take that in. And at first I was almost embarrassed that I didn't want to see movies or I would have to walk out of a room if there was like intense things going on in the television set because my friends could watch that and then just move on the next day with their lives.

And it would often show up in my dreams and it would impact me for days because I would sit, even though it was fictional characters, Sit with some of the stories that were presented to me on the screen. And so I think something that I've had to learn over the years is not to be ashamed of my big emotions, that it's how God wired me and made me.

And it's a beautiful part of who I am. And yet within that, I think that there's things culturally or societally that I have to be mindful of for myself that other people who aren't wired this way, aren't going to necessarily understand sometimes, or Make accommodations for but just for me to own that and to create the spaciousness that I need so that I can.

Love deeply and care deeply and hold spaces with people that would otherwise be challenging or to your point, Chris, that you would want to run away from. 

[00:04:54] Chris: Yeah. And, I think one of the things that has helped me, you're talking about movies or things that, that make you or that you just can't handle and me on the other hand, I, I love the movie Schindler's List and, I think I wanted to watch that with you and you're like, no, I'm not watching that.

Yeah. And it's that's such a a story that makes you feel really deeply. And, there've been other movies, but movies that may, that can move me towards these big emotions help me see, oh, you must feel those strong emotions in life a lot. Like all the time I have to go see an amazing play or see an amazing piece you have access to those emotions.

More readily, and I think identifying that you can't live, for me to have empathy for people who are in pads right in my house. I have to have empathy for those that have such strong emotions. I think. Movies are the way that makes me feel impasse, feel that way constantly. And not making fun of people who have limited input or limited source of what it is that they're taking in Even though it's different from myself, 

[00:06:07] Christina: and that's not to say, of course, I've seen intense movies in my life.

But again, having it be a surprise sprung on me versus knowing, okay, I can, I know what I'm getting into and I can handle watching this particular movie or sad movie or whatever it is. So again, I don't want it to sound like I can never do those things, but I think it is a different frame. And it's just important to note.

Maybe shifting away from that too. I remember a friend of mine once saying that she loved sharing news with me because I would just get so excited with whatever it was that she was going through and really sharing that. And so it's not always just the heavy, deep emotions too, but, and genuinely, like I genuinely get really excited for people or my face lights up when they have good news and I can share that.

And I think that again, there's spectrums of empathy and it's not. Maybe sometimes I think we can tend to camp out and think that it's these sort of deep, dark emotions, but I think it's the spectrum and the ability to feel deeply in general, not just as it relates to what we might consider positive or negative.

[00:07:02] Chris: I agree. I think you're a great person to share good news with. Or share a story with because you do celebrate with people in a way that's almost more than how they would be celebrating. I know I've shared good news with you and I'm like, your celebration is as deep as mine, even though I'm not necessarily expressing it outwardly as, as much as you are.

But I think that's another way. Area that I've learned from empaths is these joyous emotions that they feel how to be joyful in a, a space where, you know you're more demonstrative, like the hands are going the, there's a high pitch voice. Yay. And. There's a much more demonstrative celebration.

And so I think I've learned to be not, I think a good word for maybe how I'm moving away from stoicism. I think that could be how I've entered into the world or seeing the world work and my demeanor towards the world. And, stoicism. I think can be beneficial in certain areas, but I think when it comes to the highs and lows and celebrating, there's a lot to be a lot to learn from empaths.

[00:08:14] Christina: And Chris, you had mentioned earlier how, when you are in these spaces of reflection, it helps you to maybe not to criticize or to understand more where empaths are coming from. And so maybe in a moment you can speak to that. I think for me definitely reflection has been something over the years.

That's helped me to develop this aspect of my personality and character and being, and to try to use it for good in the world. I think a question that. Is pose that I'm often coming back to is what's mine to do and recognizing there's this beautiful verse in the Psalms that talks about the boundary lines have fallen to me in pleasant places and recognizing that there's boundaries and it's okay for me to recognize sometimes that.

This is mine to do. This is a story for me to journey with. And when I feel that this is mine to do, there is grace to do that. And so I have held a lot of really hard stories of people and journeyed with them for months or even years, because there's the grace to do that. And there's a fulfillment in me, like being an empath.

I do have that deep connection and I want to connect deeply with people. It's a very satisfying, rewarding thing to do. However, if I just cross an inch out of that border, it doesn't even have to be much. It sends me over the edge. And my boundary lines tend to be pretty tight at times around things.

I remember once somebody having a visual of boundary lines and there was the solid line that they used and then like those dash lines that you use to create a circle. And I think a lot of times I have really solid, sometimes I do have the dash lines that I can flex a little bit, but just depending on the season that I'm in, in that particular moment, but I know for me that's been something really important.

And sometimes it surprises me that wow, that didn't seem like that big of a deal. And it sent me into. This, I don't know, stressful place or too much when it seems little. But then if I take a step back and recognize that I've actually been holding quite a bit and I do have a high capacity for that.

If I'm staying within those boundaries that I feel is mine to do in that particular moment.

[00:10:11] Chris: Yeah. I appreciate you saying that because I've, met with a few people in spiritual direction over the years. Or maybe not even just in spiritual direction, but people who are empaths who carry a lot. And I think one of the, one of the ways that they get bogged down or overwhelmed is by taking on too much, right?

Whenever they're seeing the news all the time and it's all negative. And whenever you're an empath, of course you want to have compassion. But I think the importance of Empathy is having compassion in the moment. I think if you're having compassion for everything that you're seeing and you're not even a part of it.

That doesn't lend itself to being a productive person in society because they're just over overwhelmed and overcome by all the need all that they're seeing in the world. But if you have that approach that you just named, what is yours to do? Then you could just focus on that. Rather than being overwhelmed and overcome by everything that you're reading and seeing on the news.

So I really appreciate you naming that 

[00:11:19] Christina: , not even, yes, I thank you for bringing up the news. That's certainly again an area of something coming into you, but even with certain people too. And just recognizing that I remember years ago reflecting on some of Jesus's ministry and when he would be in crowds and would heal certain people and recognizing that meant that there were other people that he didn't heal, like he didn't heal the entire crowd.

There's these stories of a person being healed or a few people being ministered by him, but that didn't mean that everybody was. And so that's, That just gave me real freedom and permission to know that I don't have to do everything all the time for everyone. And in intense situations, sometimes what's mine to do might even seem tangential but I think that's part of it.

And I'm just thinking back to a story of prior to being married, I had worked for a nonprofit and Part of my work one summer was to help bring exposure to different orphanages and children's homes in the world to try to recruit some more resources and personnel for these places. Wonderful job, but also hard, right?

Kind of sitting with some of these really sad stories of orphanages and children's homes that are often forgotten. under resourced struggling places. And so I remember this one particular situation, I was in a country in Asia and I'm just so taken back by all the need that you're mentioning, Chris, and taking it all in and just asking the question what's mine to do? And just a really clear prompting in my spirit of what's mine to do? What's yours to do is to take care of these team of people that you brought over and make sure that they have what they need your not to directly be the one that's responsible for or to take, ownership of the actual children's home and orphanages themselves, but to care for this team and then from that people will, feel it in their heart to go or whatever.

And it was an interesting answer. It wasn't one that I was expecting and it's Oh that's easy. I can do that. I love taking care of this team. That's something that is very important. And so when I shifted and realized it's not mine to do, to take care of all these other places, but to take care of the team, I was able to help them to sit through the process.

The hardness that they were experiencing and as they were taking in the stories and all of the experiences. And then from that, sure enough, we did have some people that decided to go back and to work with some of these places long term adopt things like that. And again, I think when we're focused in on where to channel that energy, there can be some, just again, some really great fruit that comes with that.

[00:13:34] Chris: Yeah, absolutely. I like the word that you use channeling energy and you're asking me to maybe speak to reflecting on, what it's like to be surrounded by empaths. I think one of the good things that I think about living with an empath and the good that comes from that is you, I mentioned reflection.

And I think there's a lot of times I get it wrong, like the emotions, I'm not listening, it's just, it's too much. And so I appreciate being able to have second chances whenever I'm not doing a good job of listening. I am able to reflect, okay, what was really being said there? I think maybe the that strong emotion.

That was present in that conversation. Maybe it's not about me. I think a lot of people, whenever they're experiencing strong emotions around other people, they can think, Oh, am I the cause of that? And I think reflection means that I say, I don't know that I'm necessarily the cause of that.

I was present when that, that occurred, but am I the cause what? And so it's caused me to be contemplative and look deeper. And you're very gracious and let me come back and say so let me try again. What was this really about, or, tell me more about what was going on.

So I think that's how reflection has helped me be around empaths. 

[00:14:56] Christina: And I would say it too. I really appreciate, and again, Chris is an empathetic person. I don't mean it to sound like he's a, a stonewall or anything like that, but again, he agrees that he doesn't identify with the word empath, but I think that's good because sometimes.

We do need to be lighthearted and laugh and, let go of things. And I think you are really easy come, easy go in a lot of ways, and that's been a really good balance, I think. And so surrounding ourselves with friendships or colleagues, coworkers, outside people, that will pull us out of those places and where you can go, if you like to play pickleball or.

Go see a concert or things like that. That's just a low key type thing to bring us out of those spaces, I think is really helpful. I think another thing for me over the years is recognizing my need for kind of space and spaciousness is really important. And again, this is my personality type, different ones, different people, do things differently. But for me, having slower mornings has been really helpful. I know some people that are empaths, like going to bed really early is really helpful for them. I have one person I know who's an empath and they like to do a lot of their work in their bed in the morning and just have just where they're not like up and about and around and can again, take that slower morning and have their laptop in their bed with them and do things like that.

And so I think just playing around with What it looks like for you as you're taking in, and then once they have those things, those people show up really well. They're the ones that people tend to call when there's a crisis going on and they need a safe, trusting ear, or they're the ones writing reflective books, like one person is a professor and has written a lot of books and hosts another podcast and things like that.

And again, I think not being ashamed of your emotions and also not being ashamed of your self care and self need practices and recognizing that's not selfish and that's part of fostering and fueling and protecting some of these deeper empath traits.

And so again, I recognize that we are, scratching the surface today on this, but we just thought it would be helpful to just name empaths as we see you. We know that you exist. It's actually funny as I was preparing for the podcast and, I had mentioned that this is not a psychological term, but it's widely accepted.

And evidently there was some sci fi books and a sci fi book and Star Trek. Where this terminology first came up in contrast with a telepath and an empath. And so these sci fi characters who could read and take on somebody's emotions. And so I thought, Oh, that's an interesting introduction to some of this terminology.

And if you find yourself identifying with this hopefully this podcast can just get you going as far as thinking more and maybe owning and identifying that. And if you don't identify necessarily with an empath, maybe coming to appreciate others in your lives who may experience that.

Hopefully this can be some fuel for further thought and reflection. And now is the part of the podcast where we take a moment to talk about what we are into. So what are we into today?

[00:17:40] Chris: I am really into sun hats. I got a very fun sun hat at the beginning of the summer. And it's been really warm here in Wisconsin. And I have been wearing my sun hat. And I get a lot of compliments on it. One of the, one of the things that kids have frequently said to me is it's not a fedora.

A fedora is a felt hat, a sun hat usually is straw or some sort of like cloth material. And so it has done a fantastic job of keeping the sun off of my head, keeping it off my neck and As I was saying a moment ago, kids have made comments thinking that I am from Australia and trying to get me to do an Australian accent.

I cannot do an Australian accent, but it's been fun impersonating Aussies with my sun hat. 

[00:18:37] Christina: Very fun. I am into our new tortilla maker. So my family loves to eat tortillas, and we recently splurged and got one of those tortilla makers.

And our middle daughter who loves to cook has been making yummy homemade tortillas. corn tortillas. And I am very appreciative of this little gadget in our kitchen. Usually I'm not like a crazy gadget person. I like to keep things simple, but I'm glad that we got this because not only have we made tortillas, but the other day I got to make pataconi, which is a I first had it in Panama.

They eat it in Columbia as well, that I've discovered from one of our exchange students, but it's plantains that are, You use the tortilla maker to smash them really thin and fry them. And I love those. And so not only have we been making tortillas, but also pettaconi. So I am grateful for that.

Thank you so much for joining us and until next time, make it a great week.