Ep 10 Why We Need Companions

Many of us can sense at various times in our lives that we need help – relationship – even more than that – companionship. But we also feel stuck. We don’t have anything set up and developing anything meaningful feels hard, maybe even too hard. 

In this episode, we find that the struggle to keep companionship alive in our days is met with creativity and diversity. Join us and add your own ideas in the comments. 

Additional Resources:
Restaurant with a Mission: The Feed Bakery in Madison, WI
Non-Profit: The Better World Shopper Guide  

#SpiritualCompanioning
#Companions
#joiedevivre
#balance

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SUMMARY KEYWORDS

companions, companionship, solitude, journey, joie de vivre, relationship

Dominic Kaiser: 00:00

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens. 

I'm Christina Roberts.
I'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser. We're glad you joined us.  

Kristina: 00:21

Hello, it is so good to be with you today. So awhile back, I was talking with a friend of mine who was asking me, "What do you get excited about?" And for those of you who maybe know the Enneagram, I am a three and threes do not process their emotions very well. So I had to think about it. What does get me excited?! I just sit for a whole Saturday morning and decide: What do I get excited about? And I decided: I get excited about the idea of living a joy-filled life. I just believe it. I believe that we are meant to live these joy-filled lives. But then it was just immediately clear that as I was saying that...how much of my life felt joyful? I feel anxious a lot of the time. I feel worried. I'm upset about various things. So I was like, "This can't be only my deal, right?" How do we move towards this joy-filled life idea. 

So I started to explore that through the notion of journey, and ultimately ended up calling it the "Joie de Vivre Journey." So I loved French as a kid. So "Joie de Vivre" was a very exciting word for me. But the idea around it was, somehow we're sort of these little orbs of light walking around. We get light that comes to us through God, and, somehow, as we get filled up, that light goes out from us. And it's this really great thing. These great things happen in the world that makes us more joyful. So just to kind of give you a sense of the journey, there's the light. There's the joy. There's companionship, and that becomes a really big deal, too, this need for people to join us, that we really can't do it alone. And when we come, then, to those suffering moments, those crisis moments, that that's where that companionship maybe even feels the most important to us. And so today, we're going to hone in on the "companions" part of the journey. 

And I thought that we might take a look at scripture in order to do that. And I should probably mention, like, scripture is totally full of these both/and experiences, like whatever you say, in one moment, it's specific to that situation. But then you might say something else later on that feels completely opposite, because it was specific to that situation. So if we look at the beginning of the Bible, right away, in Genesis, there's this whole creation story, where every time something happens, God says, "Ooh, that was good. I liked that. Ooh, that's good, too." 

And it goes like that for like a chapter and a half. Everything's just great. And then the first recorded problem in the Bible comes up in chapter two, verse 18, where it says, "The Lord said, 'It's not good for man to be alone, I'm going to make a helper suitable for him.'" And so that's the first talked about problem that we discover. And if we think about our modern-day context, it's not money that gets talked about, it's not our predisposition to whether or not we put our trust in things that can't deliver. It's not our lack of thanksgiving and gratitude. Lots of problems we could talk about. 

But the very first one that comes up is our need for companionship. And just to say, there are other parts in the Bible. For example, if we go to Jesus's life, in Jesus's life, he goes into the wilderness for 40 days and spends time alone. So it's not that we should never be alone. It's not that we should always be alone. There's some sort of middle ground there. But apparently, human companionship actually, is important. So all that to say this is, even though I'm saying it with all this verve, it's a theory for me. What do you guys think?

Christina: 03:56

Well, I think for me, you know, when Kristina had bounced this idea off of me before we were recording, and she started off with the statement of like: The first problem stated in the Bible was solitude. And I found that really jarring because I was like, "Well, wait a minute, you know, solitude is a gift. And solitude's a good thing." And even, Kristina, you talking about the difference between that Genesis story and Jesus in the desert, I think in my mind, sort of the idea around that beginning story is part of life includes companioning. It includes others. And even as a parent, yes, I have a parent-child relationship with with my kids. But there's something different about my kids playing with other kids and drawing out that aspect. 

And so even, yes, you know, Adam had God and nature and all the wonderful things that we talked about. And yet God was recognizing: There's something about those parallel-peer relationships that we can't just get from the Divine, whether it be Divine through nature, or God, or whatever it is, that there's something there that was missing. And so, I really buy into that.

And at the same time, when I think of Jesus being in the desert, you know, there was definitely solitude. But it was only a season. It was per 40 days; he didn't always live in solitude. There's, I think, seasons and moments, which again, that's a pretty long time for solitude. So I think that's an extreme example. But even there, it talks about the angels strengthening him. And so I think there was some inner work that Jesus had to do, because he was very outward and had companions that he lived with 24/7 for the next few years. 

And so I think when I hear you talk about companionship, what comes to mind for me is both the seasonality of companioning and then also some of these dynamics of different types of companions.

Chris: 05:40

Yeah, I really liked what you said there, Christina, about companionship being seasonal, or the seasonality of companionship. And whenever I hear the word "companion," I instantly think of "The Lord of the Rings," the companions on the journey. And looking back at my life and looking at the different time periods and just the different relationships that I've had and the different seasons and how people have been companioning with me, in my journey...And, you know, I reached a point in my life where I was looking for a new sort of companion. 

I think being a pastor, sometimes you can feel like, "Well, who else is experiencing the thing that I'm experiencing in the act of being a pastor," or, "Who else is experiencing the thing of being a spiritual director," that are doing things that I'm doing? What are they going through? And so I've really enjoyed, over the past six months, finding a friend who is a pastor, and who is in this journey with me, doing some of the same things that I'm doing, I've also really enjoyed my cohort of individuals that are learning to be spiritual directors. There just seems to be rich relationships where we can just sort of share the experiences of what it means to be a spiritual director with one another. And so I really like what you had to say about the seasonality of things, Christina.

Christina: 07:12

And just to bounce off that, too, I have really appreciated people that are not part of my sphere or industry and learning from them. So I listen to a lot of entrepreneurial podcasts with female entrepreneurs. And so I love learning from different industries and then relating it back to my industry. So even companioning, I think, there's, again, different seasons and different types of companions. There are maybe peer companions, like you're talking about, Chris, where there's a lot in common, and we can really encourage each other on a pure level. 

I was listening to something talking about the difference between a Sage or a Sherpa, where a Sage is someone that has a lot of knowledge in a particular area that they can pass on, and where a Sherpa is someone who's maybe a little bit ahead in the journey experientially than you. So for example, I love having moms with teenage children or empty nesters because they offer me a different perspective, just based on their life experience. I think also companioning, I love meeting with people that are younger than me and learning from their experiences. And so I think there's such a multifaceted aspect of companioning. And to your point, Kristina, that, this is something by design as human beings that we need in order to thrive and have that Joie de Vivre that you're talking about.

Kristina: 08:26

Even when I first talked about this, I remember, like just this angst that came up for people about the difficulty of season, which, I'm glad that you guys are talking about it because it's good for us to be able to somehow work through all of that. And I think, Chris, you often talk about the spiritual companioning aspect, of: Where else can you get somebody who will just listen to you? So even that one-on-one sense of somebody coming alongside of your journey and asking meaningful questions and keeping that spirit open feels important. 

 And when we did the class, most recently, one of the things that I realized was: I'm really good at companioning...Well, not, "I'm really good"...Others are amazing about coming alongside of us when things are really big. But I realized in the smaller things, I don't let people in. Nobody even knows about them. And so, like for instance, if Dominic and I get in a fight, I tend not to tell anybody about that. I tend not to know who I would talk to about those kinds of things. And I wouldn't want people to have a bad opinion of Dominic. And then often you move on from your feelings and other people are still with you and your feelings. And a lot of times I'll feel like, "Dominic and I are in a fight because we disagree. And I don't know who to talk to about that. And so I'm just going to stew in these emotions and feel alone and feel bitter." When in point fact, lots of people are having this exact same struggle. I just haven't set any of those relationships up in my life. In order for that to be a real conversation, a real companioning experience.

Christina: 10:08

I think that is super important, what you're saying, because I think in our culture, we have social media where you can curate and post whatever you want on social media. So even if you can make it cutesy or funny, "Ha ha, we had this thing." But you're not getting help you need. Or, again, you can ignore that. Like, you had a fight five minutes ago, but you're posting the beautiful photo of something that you did together. And no one knows that, prior to that, there was a fight going on. 

But then you're right, I think sometimes, at least in my life, I have needed outside companioning, because otherwise, it's like, I'm congested with all of this stuff inside of me. And it needs to get out somehow. And I think certainly spiritual practices can do that, right, where you know, all the different things that contemplatives offer. But also by design, we need human beings to companion with us. And again, Jesus could have just had his own ministry and done his thing. But by design, he had others that helped him to do that. And even him saying, "You will do greater things," like he was only here a handful of years, and then passed it on through the Spirit to others. 

And so I do think there's a lot of validity to what you're saying about: What does it look like in those small...like, obviously, if you're in a crisis, you can go to a professional and whatever. But that's when it gets really, really extreme. But I think that that's a really important thing your nuancing of: What does that mean to have companioning in the day to day?

Chris: 11:29

Yeah, I think you know, even going with what you said, Christina, like, sometimes we have desire for companioning, even in the small things. But I think it's logistically challenging to have companions, to have companionship. And so, you know, we were talking a little bit about the struggle of having companionship during COVID. And one of the things that I found super helpful is taking walks. You know, Christina, and I have this companion relationship that that is different than my other companioning relationships. But a lot of times your conversation can just be about, "Okay, what do the kids need?" You know, all these logistical things that you have to work out. 

And so it's like, "That's not working for me right now in the space of what I need," just talking about logistics. And so we've been going on these walks. We've sort of built it into our day where we go on these walks. And on these walks, the companioning happens. And so I think it's important to realize: Okay, what are the what are the structures that you need to put into place to actually achieve this idea of companioning?

Me and another friend, we meet every other Monday night around a bonfire. It's super cold in Wisconsin, but we make it happen. We build super big fires, and we meet every other Monday night, and we companion with one another because it's important. You can't let things get in the way of that relationship that you need that will help you to draw out your experiences in life that need to be talked about.

Christina: 13:10

Yeah. And just thinking through some of the different nuances of companioning. And you know, Kristina, to your point earlier as well, when you're talking about like maybe, in the moment, you needed that, but then you've worked it out and you've moved on. And so someone may be like stuck back in the past. And it's like, "Oh, no. Actually, I'm good with that right now." Because, you know, we move through things. 

And thinking back to when I was walking through a season of infertility about a decade ago, it was a really challenging time. And I had this one friend who has five children. And so that wasn't an issue for her. But she had a real heart for me. And so once a week, she would fast coffee and invite me over to her house during her kids' naps. And we would talk and then she would pray for me. And she had a friend in Switzerland that was facing secondary infertility. And so she introduced me to this other friend. And we started this email relationship. I had never met her before. But she was struggling because she said, "You know, I should feel grateful because I already have one child. And I do and I love my child. But I also would love him to have a companion and a sibling." 

And so she was walking through that and didn't know how to talk to you because she felt shame. And it was just this wonderful thing where we understood each other and we didn't...it's like, if you were having a hard moment or day, you could email them. But then it wasn't...If they didn't bring it up again, you didn't bring it up again on their behalf. It's like: We just leave it here. And I've heard you over email. 

And that was just such different contrasting companions in that season. But I needed both. I needed the friend who had the five kids as well as the one that was struggling in those different ways. So I appreciate what's being offered here today in this conversation. 

Kristina: 14:46

Oh my gosh, I love that you're talking about that because I've been thinking a lot about a relationship in my life that I've been missing because we are both foster moms, right like, foster to adopt moms. And you know, before we moved, I was making meals and sending them to her because she had, out of nowhere, and this is how fostering works, just two baby twins. And life was just nuts. 

So I was like, "How can I help?" And I had brought over a meal and she was like, "I loved that meal! Could we pay you just like this little bit of money?" And so even in COVID, we were getting this chance to get together and just see each other a couple times a week because I was dropping a meal. And she has kept sending me pictures of the kids, but babies or, you know...my kids are doing homework at the table or whatever. It's not as cute as the videos that she can send me. But as I sat with this notion of companioning, this is an important relationship! And we share something together. So I've started sending her my videos, even if they're not as cute. And it turns out, she thinks that they're cute, just fine. So these are my issues.

Chris: 15:49

Yeah, I think one of the things that is coming up for me as we talking about companioning that might actually get in the way of companioning is, you know, we're in this state where technology is sort of our way of companioning with others. You know, we're on Zoom. We're on FaceTime. That is our mode of being with people. And sometimes I feel like it also gets in the way. For instance, I have two children that are extroverted. And we've talked a little bit about my son who loves numbers and is all about numbers. And he wants you to count with him to 1000. 

But I have another extroverted child who, who comes up and she just shares the stories with me. And a lot of times I find, "Oh, I really need to disengage with my phone. Or I need to disengage with what I'm reading. And I need to hear her story. I need to companion with her, what she's going through." And so I think that's a real challenge as well. How do we keep that balance of, you know, we're dependent on technology, to sort of have companionship with others. But whenever you have real people in front of you, how do you companion with them?

Kristina: 17:13

Yes, and our youngest is very good about getting it because he just grabs your face and puts it where he wants it. But not everyone is going to do that. And so those are my signals to put it down. 

Christina: 17:29

Cues from the young ones. I love it. 

Kristina: 17:32

Well, if people continue to be interested in this Joie de Vivre Journey, we do offer this class opportunity from time to time. So you're welcome to check out thecontemplativelife.net to see when the next class is being offered.

I think at this point we are in this moment in our journey together where we like to share things that we are into. So tell me, what do you guys up to these days? What are you into?

Christina: 18:04

Well, this week, I am into The Feed Bakery. This is a local bake shop that helps train unemployed or underemployed people with baking skills. And it's actually this kitchen about 10 minutes from our house, and they have a bunch of different startups. Some people...I know I mentioned last time about Dave's Killer Bread. So I really have a heart, evidently, for people that maybe have a criminal record and otherwise can't find employment. And so it's a wonderful training program. And I am telling you, their baked goods are a amazing. So I recently introduced a friend of mine to the baked goods we dropped some off last night. And his text was, These cookies are insane!" which I'm like I know. So I am into The Feed bakery.

Chris: 18:44

Right now I am into guitars, and I play the guitar. I love guitars. In fact, I would love to have a lot more guitars. But right now I am exploring just the different tones that the guitars have. I have two Dreadnought guitars. One of my Dreadnaughts has a cutaway. And just the different sound that that cutaway brings forth. It also has different types of wood. And I have a parlor guitar as well that has...it's a little bit of a smaller body and it has a different tone. And I have been exploring orchestra-model-guitars, and I've been listening to their tones. And so I have a dream to get an orchestra-model-guitar, and so I've been searching and scouring the internet for different orchestra guitars. So I've really been into guitars. 

Kristina: 19:41

Nice. We also love guitars in this house. So you would be in good company. And to your, point, Christina, I think the thing that I am into...I'm sort of re-into this week is the Better World Shopper Guide which you can both find online and as an app on your phone. But you can go through and see how companies rate. They have this whole system of how they rate people. And it kind of helps you be an informed shopper. And I have been back into looking at that to make, you know, as good of shopping purchases as I can. So that's me. 

I want to thank everybody for joining us today. It's good to be with you all. And there are so many resources available to you at thecontemplativelife.net. So you are welcome to keep all of this rolling by going and checking the website out. Thanks so much for being with us. We'll see you next week.