Ep 5 Starbucks, Spotify & The Contemplative

How do we go beyond a one-size-fits-all approach to faith?

In this episode, we talk about the joys of discovering why we love the things we love and how we uncover the rhythms that can help us feel spiritually nourished. We also explore the benefits of stepping out of our everyday rhythms to find even more things that help us connect in real and meaningful ways with God, with ourselves, and with the world around us. We’d love to hear your experiences, too! Join us in the comments. 

Additional Resources

Sacred Pathways by Gary Thomas
Sacred Pathways Free Online Test
Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman
Five Love Languages Free Online Quiz

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Transcript

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 SUMMARY KEYWORDS

contemplative, Love Languages, scripture, Sacred Pathways

Dominic Kaiser  00:06

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens.

I'm Christina Roberts.
I'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser. We're glad you joined us.

Christina Roberts  00:23

Hello, it is great to be with you. Today we're going to be talking about: How does one go beyond the concept of a one-size-fits-all approach to faith. And I know in Episode One, we talked a little bit about how to move past spiritual boredom, and in today's episode, we want to kind of expand, a little bit, on that topic. 

And I first started thinking about this years ago, when I came across a book called "Sacred Pathways" by Gary Thomas. And I never really read the entire book, but the premise and the table of contents really struck me, and I've since then developed the idea. And the basic idea is: He suggests that there are nine sacred pathways to God. I think this is just a sample; I think that we're not just limited to nine. But he talks about these ways in which, maybe not all of them are ones that we would normally think of as connecting to God. Or, sort of, recognizing that we tend to have natural ways in which the Divine makes sense to us, in which we interact with God. 

So let me just briefly mention the different pathways, and we can kind of go from there. So one is Naturalist and this is someone who loves God outdoors. 

Next would be a Sensate, which is loving God with the senses. So perhaps, you know, really engaging in the Eucharist, communion because you're tasting it. Or smelling incense, things like that. 

Next is Traditionalist, this would be loving God through ritual and symbol. So again, some people really enjoy the church calendar, Ash Wednesday, different holy days, holidays, things like that are ways for them to connect. 

Next is loving God through Aesthetics. And this is loving in solitude and simplicity. So people that really want to maybe be minimalist, stripped down to kind of the bare bones, basic fasting would be a way to express that. 

Next is what he calls Activists, loving God through confrontation. I would probably talk about justice, social justice, loving God in in ways that we could be active in our justice expression. 

Next is a Caregiver, which is loving God by loving others. So any practical ways in which we're walking at our faith would be under that category. 

Next is Enthusiast, which is loving God with mystery and celebration. And this is like maybe if you enjoy singing with a bunch of people, that would be an expression of loving God with celebration. 

Number eight is Contemplatives, which is loving God through adoration. And again, this is, you know, people that are maybe drawn to some of the contemplative practices at a monastery or more of the reflective type of aspects of faith. 

And then the last one is Intellectuals, which is loving God with the mind, and really enjoying being stimulated in our intellect. And that is a pathway to the Divine.

Kristina Kaiser  03:24

Thank you. That is a helpful list, I think. And you're right. I found a test, which we can link to in the comments, that gives I think, maybe 10, or 18, or something between 10 and 18, of all these different categories. But I have found this idea so helpful, even before I really understood what it was. 

So back in my, maybe, mid-20s, I had a woman I was interacting with, and she was so into color, in ways I had never contemplated color. In the opera world, a lot of times the value was on a black dress, just something neutral, very businessy, formal. But she could see colors, and she got words in colors, and they meant something to her. And when she put them together, it was this whole thing. And so I was watching her, and a little bit baffled, and a little bit intrigued. 

So that was kind of my first foray into this. And then life moves on. And there would be people who would say, "I've just got to get out, and I've got to get on my bicycle, and I've got to go for this big trek through the woods." And I thought, "That sounds dangerous," But they would tell me that they felt like that's how they connected with God. 

So I was on to this. And then what that meant for myself definitely felt more challenging to pin down. In fact, even when I took the test, like I shared with you, Christina, there's like two or three that are very obvious no's Like Naturalist is not my thing. Too many bugs! But a lot of them will get, kind of, equal scores from there. 

But words, as I really reflected on it, I love words. And that has been true forever. Like I would write poetry when I was in my angsty teenage years and trying to work out my emotions, even before I understood gifting and all that jazz. But even now, if I were to sit down and do a contemplative experience, I would love to write. I would love to...like, earlier, in another episode, I talked about chanting, "Be still and know that I am God," I would equally love sitting with the word "be" and writing out everything that comes to mind on the word "be" and "still" and the whole bit. So words are just this lovely thing, and I can sing them, and I can read them; it doesn't matter. I could listen to them. Words make me so happy.

Chris Roberts  05:43

That's interesting. I think what comes up for me is, you know, there's a list of pathways. I think we gravitate towards one or two. I think, landing on several or multiple, would actually open us up to experience life more fully. And I was listening to a podcast the other day, and the whole premise was on focusing. Tperson who was giving the podcast was talking about being on a trip in the Galapagos Islands. And there's these Sunfish that that come out. He was told by the guide, "If you look really closely, you can see sunfish break the plane of the water. And you can see their fins, and it almost looks like sharks. 

And so he encouraged them to find these Sunfish. And so he was one of a few people in the boat. Before he knew it, he was he was seeing these fish in the water. And they were breaking the plane. And he was like, "Look over there, look on that side!" And then a moment later, "Look on that side. There's one!" And he noticed that he was the only one in the boat spotting the fish. And he relates this to being an Angler. He's so used to focusing on fish, and this this aspect of fish breaking the plane of water. 

And I think sometimes, in our life, if we get too focused on the one thing, we miss what is going on around us. And so I like that there's a list. I would feel like I would want to explore many of them. And maybe that's because I'm an adventurous person and I want to explore everything, every path. But that's what comes to mind to me is, I think our tendency is to want to narrow it down and focus, so say, "That's my path!" I would caution that, if that's your only one path, then you're going to probably miss out on all the wonderful paths that lead to different places in life.

Christina Roberts  07:46

Yeah, and I think when I, again, I didn't read the book, but when I first interacted with the concept, I probably wasn't as drawn to the list. And even some of his language I didn't necessarily jive with. But I think it really has helped me even in how I structure, contemplative retreats, just recognizing that it's really helpful to have a variety of different ways within the day of a retreat that people can engage. Because you're right, people come in with very different ideas of what it means or natural ways. And so, Kristina, to your point with words and scripture...and so offering maybe multiple different ways in which people can engage. Because I think for some people, it's like, "I want to have a scripture, if we're going on a morning reflection time solo, I want to have a scripture that I can look to and reflect on. 

Which is great. And so have that. But for other people, I might have art supplies, and you can go do some art supplies and have fun with that. Or encouraging people in different nature things. And it's always wonderful when we come back after lunch and talk about how we spent some of our personal time in the mornings, just to see the variety of ways, even within the particular, if there was a scripture or reflection or the art supplies, the ways in which people are coming up with things. It's so beautiful and unique. And so I really appreciate again, the expansiveness that this concept offers.

Kristina Kaiser  09:06

I love it. And I started thinking about that, too, even in structuring services. It just started to become clear, some people need to be active and some people don't want to be active at all. So even at one point, we put together an Exercise service, an Arts service, a Pub service where there was more like chatting and community activity...And then that was a lot of services to be running. 

So then we started to just try different things in the context of a service, and I had a friend in the education industry...because they think about these things. And she was like, "You know, you're naturally doing this Universal Design Learning thing where you think about how different people's brains work, how their bodies need to move. You're just naturally doing it." I was like, "That's right. That's what we're doing. We did that on purpose." [Laughing] But there is some instinct, if you're listening to people talk, you start to catch on; Yes, people interact with the world differently. 

Christina Roberts  10:06

Yeah, and I would say, probably a book that's been really instrumental to me is the book called Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. And the book is typically used in the context of either Parent-Child relationships, Significant Other romantic relationships...But I think it applies spiritually as well, because it speaks to the idea of how we give and receive love in different ways. The Five Love Languages described are Acts of Service, so doing practical things for people. Quality time, which can be either doing an activity or having quality conversation with another person. Gift Giving - so it doesn't have to be large, but just even small gifts that you're giving to another person. Physical Touch, or even physical proximity. And then the fifth one is Words of Encouragement. 

And I think as it relates to our spirituality, I think that there are natural ways in which we tend to give and receive love from God as well. And so for one person, maybe serving is like: you feel close to God when you are somehow volunteering or giving energy in that way, that, that's really meaningful to you. Maybe for others, spending a lot of time in the Bible is important, because words are a big deal. And so that is how you're receiving words of encouragement from Jesus is through Scripture, and some of the Psalms, things like that, as well as giving words back through prayer. Or maybe if physical touch is important to you, you maybe enjoy the more embodied type of worship that sometimes the liturgical churches tend to offer. And so I personally have found a lot of juice from that concept of the Love Languages, again, of course, our human relationships, but definitely, as it relates to God as well.

Chris Roberts  11:51

Yeah, I like the concept of Love Languages as we think of relating to God. And thinking about, okay, how do I interact with God? What is what is my mode of operation? And so it's been really important for me to think about, "Okay, I really feel like, I'm loved by God. I am out in nature. And I actually have a sense of God's presence out there." So that's, you know, that quality time. And for some people, it could be like, whenever they're spending time in the Bible, that, that's a quality time with God. But for me, I find when I'm out in nature, or I'm playing my guitar, and there's this proximity to God...So quality, time understanding that has been really helpful in my relationship to Divine. And who doesn't like getting gifts? I think other people prefer getting gifts, or giving gifts, but who doesn't like getting gifts? I love it. When God drops these nuggets in my lap of, whether it is a word of encouragement, or, somebody says, "Oh, I was thinking of you, and I just wanted to give this to you," or whatever. So yeah, I find it helpful thinking about Love Languages as we relate to Divine.

Christina Roberts  13:10

Which is interesting, because gift giving is probably a lower one for me. And I've had to learn that over the years. But it's interesting in thinking about that with God, because I think a lot of times people, they're looking for a tangible blessing from God. And that is how they know their loved by God, if God is blessing them in a certain way. And I think for others, where maybe that's not your natural bend, that can seem off putting like, "Well, why do you need a blessing from God or some tangible thing to prove that God loves you?" And sometimes I think there can be some rub. But if we step back and recognize, "Oh, like, that's actually a way in which you tend to give and receive love," I think it frames it a little bit differently.

Kristina Kaiser  13:47

And adding all these little nuances can be very helpful because, if I'm looking at the sacred pathway stuff, and that word Traditionalist comes up as, "Oh, you like ritual," you know, those rhythms..and I think, "No, that's not true. I don't like that part at all!" But I do like going, for instance, to a service. And I think once I looked at it through the lens of the Love Languages, I understood because it's quality time for me. It's that one-on-one, time set aside. We get to be together, and that lights me up. So these funny little nuances where you might have said, "Oh, I'm not this because that word doesn't fit me," but then you get to see it from this other angle: Oh, that makes more sense to me, why I would enjoy that?

Christina Roberts  14:35

Yeah, and I like that cuz I think it ties in also...we had talked about personalities in an earlier episode...and I think, each of these different things, if the three of us even on this podcast, had a similar thing in which we connected, it would probably look very differently because of our personalities. And so, even for me, my rhythm of: I love going on a retreat once a quarter...So that rhythm and tradition is much more meaningful to me as a quality time, as a contemplative, as an introvert, versus maybe the weekly rhythm of a church service, which I'm guessing, you know, Kristina, I know Chris really appreciates that weekly rhythm of being with people. Maybe some of that extrovert energy and that sort of frequency of rhythm as well. 

So I think like you're saying the nuances and all of these things tying in together, I think just continue to inform us of: Yep, we're all...we live in a culture to where you can go to Starbucks and order a bajillion different drinks, because the options are endless. Or, you know, we have Spotify playlists where everybody can kind of have their own individualized expression of music. And I think that there's some real benefit to leaning into that, while also we had mentioned in our personality episode, about the shadow side and making sure that sometimes we're stretched a little bit. 

And so I think the beauty of looking at some of these different concepts: Okay, what are some ways that maybe I haven't experienced that? And what would it look like for me to maybe explore a new territory, like you're talking about, Chris, and stretching myself a little bit and maybe discovering that, "Wow, there's something here that I really needed that I didn't realize that I needed at the time!"

Kristina Kaiser  16:12

Yes. Because, take that whole color thing...There were so many reasons for why I wasn't engaging with color, right? Like, there never been opportunity, even. A lot of my things had been hand-me-downs. So I had never contemplated what color I wanted, like the towels in my bathroom were the color that we received as a gift. And my clothes were the color that someone gave me or they were black because it was for performance or something. So it was only as I was able to take more charge in my life that I thought, "I'm going to intentionally add color. And look how fun this is. And look how bright and happy this makes me!" So yes, I think there's this opportunity for growth and exploration of things as we're introduced to them.

Christina Roberts  16:56

Well, great. So we encourage everyone to consider maybe checking out some of these resources and just continuing to look for ways in which we can move past a one-size-fits-all approach to faith and really find some ways that continue to nourish our souls.

And now we are going to transition to the part of the podcast where we talk about what we're into this week.

Kristina Kaiser  17:23

Um, okay, so again, I think I'm into the funniest little things. It's all about what's bringing me joy. And this week, it is bringing me so much joy to intentionally put on my necklaces and earrings. Because pandemic and we had been really sick back in November, and so I spent a lot of time in just pajamas. And then it was this slow roll to get back into things. And so over the last few days, I've been intentionally matching my jewelry to my outfit, and it's making me very happy.

Christina Roberts  17:55

Nice, I like that. For me, I am into by way of my daughter...so I have a 13-year old who's really into music. And she kind of rotates through whatever she's interested in. And so this week, The Beatles has been highlighted in our household, and so I am into the Beatles. And you know, we are not just into: Let's listen to a Beatle song. But I think my daughter, she loves to research and learn about things. And so it's like, "Why did John and Paul have fights? What was the impact of Yoko Ono on the band? What was the best selling album," so we've been really immersed in the Beatles this week, which has been really fun and interesting. And on a side note, actually, when Chris and I, before we were dating, we were on a trip together to the UK. And we had an opportunity to go to the Beatles Museum in Liverpool. So it's been kind of fun recalling some of the different aspects of our fun, pre-engagement, pre-falling-in love-ness stage of our lives.

Chris Roberts  18:55

It's been a family affair. So I've enjoyed the Beatles as well. But I've enjoyed it from a different angle. I drive our children to school in the morning. And so we've been listening to different Beatles songs and talking about the ones that we like the most. And so I've been having fun saying, "What do you think the song is about?" You know, one of the songs, "I'm like, have you ever heard that maybe there was an aversion to anyone with any type of handicap?" "Yeah, I read that he didn't like that," or whatever. And I'm like, "What do you hear as some of the themes, the elements of the song?" So we've been geeking out on Beatles music as we drive to school. We carpool and so the neighbors that drive to school with us are in the backseat rolling their eyes, really wanting us to move on to something else. So I need to I need to find my way into something new. 

Kristina Kaiser  19:58

That is awesome.

Christina Roberts  20:00

There you have it. Well, thanks so much for joining us. As always, we encourage you to check out thecontemplativelife.net for more resources, and we'll see you again next week. Take care.