Ep 178 Contemplative Figures: Desert Fathers and Mothers

Today we talk about the Desert Fathers and Mothers from the 3rd-5th Centuries.  Join us as we explore their values of hospitality, storytelling, and the spiritual landscape of the desert.

Additional Resources

Check out past episodes of exploring contemplative figures:

The Contemplative Life, episodes 130-136

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Transcript

Desert Fathers and Mothers

[00:00:00] Christina: Hello. It's great to be with you. Today, we are continuing our series exploring contemplatives and mystics, and we'll be looking at the desert fathers and mothers. So you may be wondering, who are these people, this clump of people? These are men and women in the third, fourth, and fifth centuries who wanted to disconnect from the materialism and influences of their time and go live in the deserts of primarily Egypt.

Syria and Palestine. And I first heard about these people in seminary. We were learning about church history and also monastic communities. And they intrigued me. In fact, I had a four week lecture about modern monastic life.

And our instructor at the time lived in an intentional monastic community in Kentucky haven't been inspired by the lives of these people. And I re listened to those lectures at least a dozen times. I was just really captured by these people and how that relates to our modern world. And I'm not unique.

In fact, back in the day, people would travel to the desert to meet these men and women, to learn from them, to pray together. They had sojourners who would bring food, water, supplies to the desert fathers and mothers, and then they would stay and share the meals together. So while some lived completely alone as hermits, Others lived in these small groups or communities, and then those began to grow a little bit larger and perhaps there were like particular spiritual leaders that kind of took ahead and formed the different particular faith expressions and communities.

While I am not looking to go move to the desert, I do find some of their rhythms and ways of life intriguing. And so today we want to talk about three aspects, three values of the desert fathers and mothers that we can learn from in our own lives. The first being hospitality, the second storytelling, and then third, the idea of the spiritual landscape of the desert.

So Chris, as I talk about this, what comes up for you?

[00:01:50] Chris: I think I'll kick off the conversation, talking a little bit about hospitality. And when I think of hospitality, I envision a barbecue or a table full of food. And my imagination doesn't immediately go to people living in a desert. However, all sorts of people would visit the desert fathers and mothers.

I think other monks and nuns would travel to learn. From each other, similar to our modern day context of going to conferences and learning from other people. I think people from nearby towns would travel to seek guidance or counsel or to get perspective on their own lives. I think others might have deeper needs for healing or forgiveness.

And so they would go to the desert. To talk and pray. I think similar to our modern context for therapy and healing ministries, I think these visitors would often bring bread, vegetables, fruit, water, clothing, these other essential items that were needed to sustain their lives. And then the desert fathers and mothers would share.

These provisions with people who came to visit them. So there's hospitality in the sense of basic food and drink, but more so hospitality of the heart and providing hospitable spaces for listening and caring and prayer. 

[00:03:15] Christina: Yeah, I appreciate you naming all that because I think it's important and I also, I love good food drink.

That's a really big part of my growing up in my culture and heritage and yet I really appreciate that. It wasn't so much centered around that the specifics of what they were eating and drinking, but like you're saying, creating these spaces where people could come and feel welcome. And I do agree with you.

There was a variety of different people that would visit and it reminds me of my mom. We are connected with a local monastery here in Madison, and one of their core values is hospitality. And it's interesting, I was talking to one of the sisters once, and she was just talking about the variety of people that find their way into the monastery, and how every day is so interesting because you never know who's going to show up and what the day is going to be like.

Which again, I think our imagination, or at least my initial imagination of things, Thinking of a bunch of people in the desert doesn't conjure that up, but it's yeah, I think that there is that and they're, you're drawing in those modern contexts of how we might seek out others, I think is really relevant to even those earlier centuries.

[00:04:16] Chris: This piece of hospitality I think of is so important to our growth and our formation, our deepening our spiritual deepening as people. And, I think I grew up in a church and there were routine things that, that we did. as a part of that faith community. And I think they're important, but whenever I look back to my own life and where I grew the most, it was centered around hospitality.

And I had a friend, he was a missionary. That came back to the U S, him and his family became the youth pastors. And I remember being invited into his house. And I would go to his house and, he had this funny saying that, he should be able to claim me on his income tax because I more meals at his house than I did at my own family's house for that period of time.

And it is true. And I would go there. We would talk about God. We would talk about life. Interaction. I, we would play music together. And it was not just me myself, but it was other young people. And I remember the deepening that happened in that point in my life. And I would say it was probably the, one of the most impactful seasons of my spiritual growth.

So I can't help, but think that hospitality is so important to spiritual deepening. 

[00:05:38] Christina: Yeah, that's a beautiful story. Thank you. You know, Another focus of this community was storytelling. And this was back when there wasn't, the idea of formal theology seminary didn't exist back then. And so the stories of faith were shared orally.

And of course, this followed the ways of Jesus who taught through stories as well. And I was actually reading about some of the key leaders from this era. And there was a woman named Macrina, the elder. And she taught her grandchildren stories of faith and two of her grandsons went on to become St. Basil and St.

Gregory, who, if you study church history, are quite important figures in the early church movement. Also, Macrina the Younger was her granddaughter, and in both Basil and Gregory's books, they devote part of their books talking about their younger sister, Macrina, and the things that she learned and how she helped to form.

And so. I love this rich tradition, seeing a grandmother passing down stories of the faith to her three grandchildren that went on to help shape and continue on Christianity. And so I appreciate that too, because reading, writing, formal education was out of reach for most people in that century, in these centuries that we're talking about.

And yet being able to share in these ways made it more accessible to people. So I really appreciate their aspect of storytelling.

This also reminds me of some podcasts I've been listening to lately that are actually business podcasts, and as these entrepreneurs or business leaders are being interviewed. It's interesting to me how many of them maybe came from immigrant families or families where storytelling was a major part of their learning.

So while they personally had formal education and higher degrees or whatever, as they're sharing their story of entrepreneurship, it's often, my grandmother did this and talked about this around the table, or my father instilled in me the importance of X, Y, or Z work ethics. And so it's interesting to me, this idea of storytelling to pass on wisdom.

Yes, of course, books and knowledge. And I, I'm very grateful for my formal education. And yet I think there's a beauty in storytelling and I see a resurgence of that, like the importance of it and people leaning into what is my story. And I think too, sometimes our story can feel plain, simple.

Like I don't have some flashy thing. And yet I think even in that there's these nuggets that we can be inspired by and can be a spark in our own stories.

[00:07:57] Chris: I think the thing that I'm struck by with storytelling is just how different it is from our modern learning, storytelling is sitting with someone. And passing on information and I'm new to the game and I'm learning how to tell stories to my children, but I'm also learning how to ask questions to draw out stories from those that are around me, because I want, I see that there is something amazing about their faith journey or about just their life in general.

And so if I can ask the right questions, because I don't think that is our normal, Mode of operation is storytelling. And so I think there's a resurgence of that happening in our faith communities. And so I, this is very inspiring to me as a way to, to deepen in faith.

[00:08:49] Christina: And then of course, the third piece is the desert landscape. And I think we would be remiss if we didn't take time to talk about the fact that these people lived in the desert, there's a spiritual landscape of a desert that's different. From those living by the sea or in an urban setting or gardens, things like that.

And lately I've been really struck by Ansel Adams. If you look at his photography, he has absolutely stunning photos of deserts. And so it's interesting to me, right? People are drawn to his work. He captures these landscapes and images, and not only him there's poems, there's chants, there's literature.

inspired by the deserts, right? Georgia O'Keeffe, her work in the southwest of the United States of America, again, capturing the beauty of these sort of barren wilderness areas. And, I do recognize that the desert fathers and mothers came from different parts of the world, Egypt, Syria, Palestine.

But just the idea of what similarities can we draw from wilderness and the spiritual connections in that topography.

[00:09:50] Chris: Now, I think as I hear you we're talking about, desert landscape. I think we're talking about two different things. We're talking about metaphor, what are we experiencing internally. Are we in a desert internally? And we're also talking about the natural elements of a desert.

And I grew up in West Texas, which would be considered a desert. And I had such rich experiences as a kid in the desert. And I think of the, I think of the rain, whenever it would rain, it, it was just this beautiful smell that would come. It didn't rain often. It would only rain every once in a while, but it brought this beautiful smell.

I think the technical term is petrichor, but I remember. The night sky and feeling like there's something greater. The sky is so big and the clouds, I remember electrical storms, we would have electrical storms once a year. And it was just this awe inspiring landscape that I remember as a But I also remember the quiet.

And so whenever I think about a desert landscape, I think about the quietness and whenever you're not surrounded by loud engines and bustling, I think there's a peace. There's a tranquility to that. I have been drawn back to the beauty of desert landscape. In my latter years, of course, as a kid, I wanted to get away from that.

I wanted to go somewhere. I wanted to experience the beauty of trees, mountains, oceans. But I look back on my upbringing with fondness and I remember the good things and the blessings that were in that desert landscape that I grew up in. 

[00:11:37] Christina: I appreciate you naming that because I do think there's a beauty in the desert, like I was highlighting these different artists, but your story makes me think of a time that I visited the Sahara desert and you're right.

The stars gazing at the stars in a desert is beautiful because there isn't any. thing else there, right? And so you're just captured by that, and I appreciate you naming the, those small moments of the rain and whatnot that you had and just really capturing that. So again, I think there's, in and of itself, the desert landscape, I think, has things to teach us.

And as we think about modern monastics, Thomas Merton comes to mind as perhaps probably one of the most well known desert monastics. He lived as a hermit for a period of time at the Abbey of Gethsemane in Kentucky and wrote extensively about contemplative spirituality and the search for God's solitude.

So if you are interested in learning more about the desert fathers and mothers, he would be a great resource. And actually he's the one that inspired the lecturer that I talked about at the beginning of this podcast that kicked off this in my own heart of curiosity around the desert fathers and mothers.

So thank you so much for this conversation today. It was good to revisit and think about some of these unique aspects of these people.

Also, I want to encourage you if you are enjoying listening to the different contemplatives and mystics that we're bringing up from history. We also did a series last summer where we visited several different mystics as well.

Those are episodes 130 through 136. So we encourage you to take a listen to that as well. And now is the part of the podcast where we talk about what we're into. So what are we into?

[00:13:09] Chris: We talked about this a little bit in the podcast, but I am into barbecue sauce. I am having a barbecue later today that I'm going to, and I just had a conversation with other friends about their favorite barbecue sauce. And so today a bunch of us are bringing our favorite barbecue sauce and we're going to get to try them and experience them.

So I, I'm into barbecue. 

[00:13:33] Christina: Very fun. Tis the season. I am into international students. And if you have been listening to our podcast for a while, this is probably something that I brought up in past summers, but we are hosting two students, one from Brazil and one from Columbia who are here studying English for a few weeks in the summer.

And it's just always delightful to have people in our home that come from different parts of the world, learning about their foods and cultures and families and traditions. And We are enjoying our two international students and that is what I am into. Thanks so much for joining us and until next time, make it a great week.