Ep 68 Technology, Screens and The Contemplative Life

Technology has done wonders for our lives. We use it. We need it. And we’re thankful for it. At the same time, sometimes it creates unhelpful patterns in our lives that affect us negatively. We feel it. We know it. And we want something different for ourselves. And so today we talk about how our contemplative practices can help us find the balance we’re looking for when it comes to screens, media, and all the rest. Join us as we talk about outward engagement paired with inward letting go. 

Additional Resources
Reading: Liturgy for Mediaby John O'Donohue
Tea: Masala Chai Tea
Creamer: Nut Pods Almond & Coconut Creamer 

#Mindfulness
#Balance
#BeingPresent
#Media 

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Transcript

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SUMMARY KEYWORDS

technology, screens, media, being present

Dominic Kaiser  00:06

Welcome to The Contemplative Life: Three pastors, friends and spiritual companions help us explore spirituality through a contemplative lens.

I'm Christina Roberts.
I'm Chris Roberts.
I'm Kristina Kaiser. We're glad you joined us. 

Christina Roberts  00:25

Hello, it's great to be with you. Today we are talking about technology, screens and contemplative life. And I want to start off by saying, in no way do we want this to feel like a shaming episode. I think sometimes when the topic of technology comes up, all of a sudden, we feel like, Oh my gosh, our brain cells are dying.  Our relational connections are drying up. This is horrible. And while we want to acknowledge some of the dynamics that screens and technology actually bring to our lives, we are hoping that we can see how the contemplative life and some of these practices are super helpful and super important in this day and age. Because the reality is that I'm sure every single one of us… and if you're listening to this podcast, obviously, you're engaging with technology right now. And so it's part of our lives, it's here to stay, it's not going anywhere. And so what does it mean to engage with God, with others, with ourselves and with technology? So I love to open up the conversation today and see what comes up for the two of you.

Kristina Kaiser  01:22

Yeah, I think that's a helpful framework to say, Hey, this is a both /and kind of conversation.  We both use technology and need it, and we need breaks from technology at times. And it reminds me a little bit, I have been reading up on Muslim traditions for class, and there is a shared notion with Christianity, to be in the world, but not of the world. And they kind of expanded out a little bit to talk about an inward letting go with an outward engagement. And I just found that to be useful to be like, I'm going to outwardly use this stuff, but I don't need it, it's not going to take over.  Or maybe when it does take over, I can notice it and make another choice. But yes, I think that that's an important aspect of being able to engage in a conversation about technology and screens in that both/and reality,

Chris Roberts  02:21

Yeah, I'm super thankful for technology, I think I've been able to be a part of some things, whether it's, you know, a school or a class because of technology.  I didn't have to drive a long way to go to these classes, I've been able to be a part of things that I probably wouldn't be able to be a part of, if it wasn't for technology. But I'm also very aware of how technology, we use the word screens or social media, whatever you want to say, they often tend to if you don't look at it in a contemplative way, they can just sort of eat up your time.  My thoughts around technology and screens are how we view it in a way where it's a tool for us, rather than it becoming the master. And oftentimes, when I talk to people, it is the master of their life. And they're asking questions, How can I cut back? This is out of control, What should I do? And so I'd love to hear more thoughts about that. 

Christina Roberts  03:35

I was recently listening to a couple of different podcasts, one with sociologists and researchers talking about some of the habits that are formed with our technology and social media. And one thing he was bringing up was, as an English speaker, I read a book from left to right, and my eyes scan that way as I am reading a book. However, with screens, we tend to do skimming. So he said, what happens is we read the first line, and then we kind of go down with our eyes to kind of skim and then maybe catch that last line. And so that is creating these kinds of a Z pattern or capital I pattern in our reading. And so then when we go to read books, it can become very challenging to have that pattern of left to right. And we can easily get distracted and lose our interest in books, and particularly with young young children who are forming their reading habits. When we aren't having that in place and we're doing the skimming thing, that can tend to be a problem for them with immersing ourselves. And so I was just thinking about that idea of skimming as just one topic of screens and technology. And I do it all the time. Right? We kind of skim to see, do I want to actually read this article? Or can I just skim to get the bits and the highlights so I kind of know what's going on in the news or with certain situations. And I think somebody was talking the other day about when you're teaching a baby to swim or a child you dip them barely into the water. It's like you kind of are going underwater but really you're not.  Your face is barely really touching the water. But you have to kind of skim that water to get used to the water, right? That's much different than immersing yourself under the water and swimming underwater, right. And now I think a lot of times in our lives, we tend to skim, we just barely are touching something. And it's like, we're good to go, we can swim now. Or, yep, I prayed. Or yep, I meditated. Which is fine. And again, that's a starting place. But that's so much different than the immersiveness. And so I just thought, Wow, that's fascinating, even our reading patterns, and how that can translate into other areas of our lives where we are losing the interest or attention, because we're just patterned differently in the way that our brains working,

Kristina Kaiser  05:37

It does happen to me where I read, and then when I see the bottom, I realize almost instantly, I didn't read anything in the middle, and I have to go back. And I have to start again, which I'm noticing it's starting to cause me sometimes to read backwards, to be checking out information at the bottom. But really, with all of this, I think I've had to learn mindfulness where technology is concerned. I've seen technology come into place as I was having all these children and having work. And so it was like, great, I can stir the pot and answer emails at the same time. And I can watch a show and do something over here at the same time. And so I've had to embrace this notion of being mindful that if I am on a screen, and there are other people there, I'm not also secretly checking my email, like seeing what that notification is that popped up. But just to really intentionally say, I see those eyes, I see that person, look at the beauty of this person that is in front of me, as if they're really in front of me. And so that is changing things. And the same is true if I'm watching shows at night with my husband. I could easily do something on my phone and let the show go. But to say, I'm going to intentionally set this over here and hold his hand and be connected, right? Because the phone is going to keep me from that other extra connection. So it's been this practice of mindfulness, if you will.

Chris Roberts  07:19

Yeah, I think what I hear you saying is being present, how can we present to everyone and everything in life? And I think that's the balance that we're trying to strike here is, yes, we can use technology. Yes, it helps our lives in tremendous ways. It cuts down on you know, I'm thankful for washing machines. There are lots of things about technology that I'm very grateful for. But, you know, being present to situations, but I'm also very mindful of the addiction that can happen to screens and technology. And I think that's something that's coming up for me. And many people that I know say sometimes you just have to make a clean break with some things. There's a game that I love to play in the morning, it helps me get my mind going. And I've been struggling, do I play this game? Or do I go on a walk?  And I just have to delete the game off of my iPad, if I want to do something that I find being present to myself being present to my health. I think some people just have to make a clean break. And I know some people that have gone on media cleanses they've done 40 days of without media, I even heard recently of a guy that goes six months when he doesn't engage in social media.  He has somebody lock up his phone, and change the passcode on everything. And I just want to be aware of this. You know, even though we're talking about being mindful and being present, this is a real danger for a lot of people. And this thing of being addicted to technology, being addicted to screens, and social media is very present in our life.

Christina Roberts  09:14

Yeah, and I think that's important to acknowledge. And again, there's technology and all of the social media, it's designed to be addictive, right. It's designed to give us dopamine hits and all of that, and to recognize that okay, God has given us these brain chemicals for a reason. And so Chris, your example of I can play my game, or I can walk out in nature. Both of those things are going to provide brain chemical releases for you. It's just what quality, what type of brain chemical release am I going for? Right? So I think that's important in some of the rhythms. I think going back to this idea of skimming, right? I can skim or what are some practices that I can do to counter that. And so, I was recently with a group of people and we spent probably 40 minutes reflecting on a poem together. We've read the poem through twice very slowly. We talked with the partner about the poem, what lines stood out to us, we came back to the larger group and just really soaked in this poem. And so I think that's a practice where I am going to stop skimming.  And, you know, when I'm going through newsreels or certain things, I will continue to skim, because that's just part of how I take in those types of sources. And I don't want to meditate on the news necessarily. And also, I want to make sure that I'm using different muscles where I am used to going deep and not getting bored with the same thing. And going back to the same, I have another group and every month, we get together, and we go back to the same passage in, we're looking at a particular passage in the New Testament. And each month, we're coming back to the same passage. And we've done that for months to practice how to not be bored with going back to the same thing and to expect something with fresh eyes. And so I think that's important, whatever it is that we're noticing about our patterns with technology. What we can add to that to help have a more balanced approach.

Kristina Kaiser  10:58

That’s such a beautiful point, because so much of the media is created with this expendable feel? Which can cause this, like, did it do it kind of scenario. But then to have this other practice, to be able to say, how do I go deeper? How do I see that there can be something new and fresh when I come back to something?  Maybe if you're playing a game that's meant to come and go in three minutes, and then the next one, finding new and fresh, that's not the place that you're gonna get that right. But this poem, which is full of metaphor, parable, possibility, the outdoors, same idea, like new revelations, but it's kind of exercising different aspects of the brain. I've seen some advertisements, saying some of these games can improve brain function and memory or something like this. And maybe that's true, I haven't looked into it. And then there's this other part of the brain, this other part of opening that also kind of wants that exercise. And if we don't use it, we don't know how it becomes a foreign language to us a little bit.

Christina Roberts  12:11

Yeah. And again, going back to the sociologist and researcher that I was referencing earlier, they were talking about, and this was with, I don't remember what town but they were working with some schools and parents in the schools and how there was this fear of kidnapping.  Parents want to keep their kids inside, because for fear of your child being kidnapped.  When I was a kid, we would just go play in the neighborhoods until it was dark out and come back for supper. And it was a very different childhood than I think nowadays. And the sociologist was giving statistics of the chance of your child being kidnapped, compared to being hit by a car, or hijacked on a plane or something like that. It's very low. And so he said, if we're afraid to let our children go and explore outside, then really the only risk that they're getting or creative outlet is through video games. And so he really encouraged these parents and these cohorts in the schools to provide opportunities for children to have freedom outside. And what happened was the kids were building forts, or using their creativity or risking on the playground, as opposed to having this idea that I have to stay safe in my physical life and I can explore and expand in my virtual life.  How can we, again, create opportunities in our actual real life? And I think about naming, what are the fears? What are the things that keep us from going outside and doing these different practices? And so I think that feels important to acknowledge, what are the hindrances, and what are some ways that I can overcome them?

Kristina Kaiser  13:37

Yeah, that's a totally fair point. And I certainly observe creativity come when we say we're not going to utilize the technology. But Dominic and I, we've always had this value. When we first got married, we chose not to have a TV, which upset everyone we knew. They were so upset, people brought TVs to our house, like you must have a TV. We've never chosen to have the biggest TV. And even recently, when a TV got broken, we chose not to have one for like three months, and it kills people. But every now and again, we just take a rest, even though I use technology like crazy. I mean, I've been doing the online connection thing with people since before COVID hit.   It's just been a part of my world. And like Chris said, it made it possible for me to have a career and a family. I am very thankful for all the conferences that I can attend online, because otherwise I couldn't go. I couldn't justify that time away. So I do appreciate what it's bringing to my life. And then sometimes I just give it a rest. I put it down for a little bit. 

Chris Roberts  14:47

And there's this liturgy for the media and it's this short sort of poem that I go back to. Maybe I could share it with you guys here on the podcast.  It's by John O'Donohue. I go through this over and over again because it helps me be mindful. But this is a liturgy for the media. Oh discerning Spirit, who alone judges all things rightly. Now be present in my mind and active in my imagination as I prepare to engage with the claims and questions of my culture. Incarnated in the stories that people tell, lead me to experience mediums of art and expression, neither as a passive consumer, nor as an entertainment and glutton, but rather as one who through such works, would more fully and compassionately enter this ongoing human conversation of mystery and meaning, wonder and beauty, good and evil, sorrow and joy, fear and love. May the stories I partake of, and the ways in which I engage with them, make me in the end a more empathetic, Christ bearer.  More compassionate, more aware of my own brokenness and need for grace, better able to understand the hopes and fears and failings of my fellow humans, so that I may more authentically live and learn and love among them. To that end, many stories might somehow be more beautifully woven into your own greater story.

Christina Roberts  16:23

Thank you, and I appreciate again, what we're naming, that media and technology are good, just like I enjoy a cupcake. Am I going to eat a cupcake every day, all day? No, because that will make me ill, But I can certainly enjoy and be grateful for a cupcake. And in the same way, renaming technology is good, and there's wonderful aspects and I think Kristina, you even point out that even with young people, too, that is a form of connection and fun and playing games with our friends.  That is part of the thing that we're not going to get rid of, right? We're not going to all of a sudden become a bunch of luddites that don't engage with technology. That's not reality. And so I think I appreciate what we're naming today a kind of that weaving in of the both/ and and how can I find God and connection and goodness with these resources and tools? Thanks for a generative conversation.

Christina Roberts  17:19

And on that note, we will transition to the part of our podcast where we talk about what we are into this week. What are we into friends?

Kristina Kaiser  17:26

Well, I think and I hope I didn't share this already, but I am super into masala chai tea, I think a while ago I was into peppermint tea.  Teas are making a comeback in my life. But a friend came over and they brought this loose-leaf masala chai and I couldn't even get it right away. I've started to make big pitchers of it so that we can just heat it up again later. And because it's the loose leaf, it's super potent like all the flavors are really there and talk about mindfulness.  I stop everything to drink this cup of tea.

Christina Roberts  18:09

That sounds lovely. Well maybe I will continue on the beverage front. I am into Nut Pods almond and coconut creamer, the French vanilla version. And normally I am not plant based on what to put into your coffee. But I saw that as I thought that's intriguing and it is literally plant based unsweetened, dairy free, non-GMO soy free, Carrageenan free, keto friendly, paleo friendly is on the side of the box. I am looking at it now. And I like it. It's delightful. I've been using it in my coffee in the mornings. And it's kind of a fun switch up. So I am into Nut Pods.

Chris Roberts  18:45

Well, I will continue with the food thing. I would say that I have a desire to be into rice. I think we have become more conscious of trying to think about foods that are eaten all over the world. And rice is something that I don't know that I've given a fair shot to. One of my favorite foods is Mexican food. And so it comes with brown rice and refried beans and I will eat it mixed in there. But rice isn't something that I have fully engaged with. So I am trying to be into rice as a sort of supplemental food or food that a lot of people eat and trying to be conscious of maybe developing a love for rice. So that's something that I'm trying to get into.

Christina Roberts  19:39

We’ll have to have a follow up to see if indeed you are into it in the coming up weeks. 

Well thanks so much for joining us. As always, if you'd like to connect with us further, we invite you to go to info@thecontemplativelife.net and you can sign up for a sample spiritual direction session. Or if you'd like to be part of our newsletter, you can sign up there at thecontemplativelife.net.   Until next time, make it a great week. Thanks for joining us.